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Author: Subject: Atomic hydrogen torch with Neon Sign Transformer
symboom
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[*] posted on 28-3-2012 at 13:39
Atomic hydrogen torch with Neon Sign Transformer


well i have a 12,000 volt NST transformer
is this suficiant to split apart Hydrogen atoms to monoatomic hydrogen

ive used it to make NO gas to nitric acid
its very slow and inefficient way but it does work.

and i can make hydrogen with zinc + HCL
reaction.

and i have tungsten rods

but is the current enough to dislocate
hydrogen my nst output
12,000 volt
30 mA

excerp from wikipedia
from Atomic hydrogen welding (AHW) is an arc welding process that uses an arc between two metal tungsten electrodes in a shielding atmosphere of hydrogen. The process was invented by Irving Langmuir in the course of his studies of atomic hydrogen. The electric arc efficiently breaks up the hydrogen molecules, which later recombine with tremendous release of heat, reaching temperatures from 3400 to 4000 °C. Without the arc, an oxyhydrogen torch can only reach 2800 °C.[1] This is the third hottest flame after cyanogen at 4525 °C and dicyanoacetylene at 4987 °C. An acetylene torch merely reaches 3300 °C. This device may be called an atomic hydrogen torch, nascent hydrogen torch or Langmuir torch. The process was also known as arc-atom welding.

The heat produced by this torch is sufficient to melt and weld tungsten (3422 °C), the most refractory metal. The presence of hydrogen also acts as a gas shield and protects metals from contamination by carbon, nitrogen, or oxygen, which can severely damage the properties of many metals. It eliminates the need of flux for this purpose.
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aaparatuss
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[*] posted on 28-3-2012 at 15:55


in short if it can disassociate the triple bond of nitrogen then monoatomic hydrogen could be produced,


but diatomic hydrogen makes a fine torch...so i dont see where you are going.
i would make a ozone generator with it, but transformers have many uses...

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johansen
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[*] posted on 28-3-2012 at 17:11


i wonder if a #14 welding lens would be dark enough?

my guess is although you should be able to demonstrate the effect, you won't have enough power.

A bit of googling suggests you need 6 kilowatts of power. (remember, blackbody radiation follows T^4 !)
And a prior thread here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3509

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[*] posted on 29-3-2012 at 05:48


Quote:
but is the current enough to dislocate
hydrogen my nst output
12,000 volt
30 mA


Yes, very small and barely useable amounts of it. The amount of atomic H produced is directly proportional to the power consumed.




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neptunium
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[*] posted on 29-3-2012 at 08:25


a lower voltage would be safer to handle but it means a higher amperage ...
a typical arc welding reaches 200 to 300 A but with a much lower voltage




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symboom
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[*] posted on 30-3-2012 at 13:20


Quote: Originally posted by froot  
Quote:
but is the current enough to dislocate
hydrogen my nst output
12,000 volt
30 mA


Yes, very small and barely useable amounts of it. The amount of atomic H produced is directly proportional to the power consumed.


so would an arc welder work
making atomic hydrogen

70 Amp Arc Welder
Shielded Metal Arc Welding - uses SMAW stick electrodes for better welding control
120 volt, 20 amp, single phase input
AC output for a smooth and easy welding process
Weldable materials: steel, stainless steel, cast iron
Thermal overload protection with indicator light
Welding current: 40-70 amps AC

Input: 120 volts, 20 amps, single phase, 60 Hz
Welding current: 40-70 amps AC
Rated output voltage: 22
Max open circuit voltage: 42
Rated duty cycle: 20% @ 70 amps
Electrode capacity: 1/16" to 3/32"
Weldable materials: steel, stainless steel, cast iron
Includes: hand held face shield, wire brush / chipping hammer combo, 5 electrodes
10 ft. electrode cable and holder
6.5 ft. ground cable
Shipping Weight: 28.80 lb.

=80 Amp Inverter Arc Welder

Hot Start lets you start welds easily
Power switch lights up to tell you the power is on
Thermal overload protection with indicator light
5.5 ft. welding cable with dual-angle electrode holder
5 ft. ground cable with clamp
ARC Force provides a 15% over current to prevent sticking when the electrode enters the bath
Anti-stick lets you separate the electrode easily without reddening
High welding current stability for consistent output

Input: 120 volts, 20 amps (120 volts), 21 amps (240 volts) amps, single phase, 60 Hz
Welding current: 10 to 80 amps
Rated output voltage: 27 volts
Max open circuit voltage: 60 volts
Rated duty cycle: 35% @ 75 amps
Electrode capacity: 1/16" to 3/32"
Weldable materials: mild steel, cast iron, stainless steel
Material thickness: 18 gauge (3/16" thick)
Includes: shoulder strap
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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 30-3-2012 at 16:51


Quote: Originally posted by symboom  
so would an arc welder work
making atomic hydrogen
You spewed out specs for what look like two CV (constant voltage) weld power supplies. For a stable fixed gap arc you need at least a CC (constant current) one. If you either don't know what the difference is or don't know why you need CC to stabilize a fixed gap arc, you aren't ready to even begin thinking about an atomic hydrogen torch.
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symboom
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[*] posted on 31-3-2012 at 13:28


Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  
Quote: Originally posted by symboom  
so would an arc welder work
making atomic hydrogen
You spewed out specs for what look like two CV (constant voltage) weld power supplies. For a stable fixed gap arc you need at least a CC (constant current) one. If you either don't know what the difference is or don't know why you need CC to stabilize a fixed gap arc, you aren't ready to even begin thinking about an atomic hydrogen torch.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welding_power_supply
With a CC machine the welder can count on a fixed number of amps reaching the material to be welded regardless of the arc distance but too much distance will cause poor welding.

thanks for that it makes alot of since

one is using a AC powered welder
and the other is DC


the three things i can think of is

MOT
2000 - 4000 Volts
500 milliamps

NST
12000 volt
30 milliamp
have constant current output

Arc Welders
ones that have constant current
one varies the amp output and voltage adjusts according
welder are around
70 amps
30 volts

so which is the best suited
for an atomic hydrogen torch

alright i found a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mks09XPvYYw

and a page
http://www.specialwelds.com/articles/atomic-hydrogen-welding...

[Edited on 31-3-2012 by symboom]
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