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[*] posted on 29-5-2012 at 05:51


I refuse to even watch videos like that, although I am an old dude and have seen similar before.

Peroxides... just say no. Sucks that they are so easy to prepare.
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[*] posted on 29-5-2012 at 07:38


Quote: Originally posted by a_bab  
As taken from a explosive incidents report (can't find it, maybe someone else will):

"The accident occurred on the 12th of December 2006 next to the railway bridge on the river Vah, opposite Budatin Castle [seen in background] in Zilina, Slovakia. The victim, Adamovi K prepared what in pre-fire pictures looks like it could be ammonium nitrate and nitromethane (ANNM) which looks like a purple slurry (presumably from the dyes sometimes added to nitro fuels), in a plastic container which looks like it could hold about 200g. Initiated by a homemade blasting cap made from a glass vial containing a homemade primary explosive (HMTD/TATP), which was inserted into the secondary explosive slurry. It's not known why detonation occurred prematurely, but cotton wool may have been used to seal the fuse inside the vile of primary explosive, which failed... The victims right hand was severely damaged and had to be amputated."

Even if it was flash the result would have been the same. The discussion as to what it was is irrelevant; he clearly had a big fuse-related issue.
A good reminder for anyone playing russian roulette.


Wow, I live in Slovakia and river Váh flows through my town. :O :O




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CrEaTiVePyroScience
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[*] posted on 29-5-2012 at 07:59


Wow 200g of ANNM would kill you if it explodes that close to your body, he should be ATLEAST deaf..
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[*] posted on 29-5-2012 at 12:32


"Phone"'s accident...

Phone's post before he killed himself that weekend

===========================================
phone
February 21st, 2004, 07:08 AM
i wonder if in europe there is anyone that uses mehenamine for fire tablets or other things..i found only petrol derivate tablets...


Yeah. They´re german, I don´t have the pack right here, but it´s almost pure methanamine (or how you now spell that lame word). You just solve it in aceton and you get it pure (or was it water) I haven´t really memorized it since I am an AP lamer (but I do own a pack with methanamine), HMTD is nutting for me :P, but hey, first time I did AP I did 80 grams, second 120 grams, third time (yesterday, drying today) something about a kilo or more... :P I GONNA BLOW MY FRICKING ARMS OFF! And yeah, I don´t treat AP with respect, but well, I got plenty of cold, snow and ice outside so my AP is usually quite resistant against pressure e.tc. Well, right now my brain feels like weird, I gonna have to put up a few lamps e.tc. (it dried overnight, switched the newsspaper it was on) and I think I gonna put up a few lamps to get the bitch dry faster. Well, my moms out of the weekend, that´s why I am sitting here with over 1 kilo AP and lots and lots and lots AN. Well, sure, I spam... but.. hey! :P Well.


Well, almost forgot, I always take all my explosives and just make 1 big fucking bomb of it. 1 kilo AP and a couple of kílos AN coming up.
===========================================


A major swedish newspaper reports that a 15 year old boy was killed instantly on the night between sat. and sunday when a homemade bomd exploded .

His three friends at the site where not physically injured but severly chocked.

Police and bomd squad later evacuated the apartment building in which the boy lived, to search the apartment for explosives.


Today they said it was TATP about 800g


Here is something to laugh about...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x58deh_800g-apan-byfornikat...

How careless are these people today with explosives...

[Edited on 29-5-2012 by Phantom]




Adrenaline filled experimentalism.
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[*] posted on 29-5-2012 at 16:23


It always makes me cringe seeing people using fuses. Why not just pitch the ~40 dollars to make a good electric initiator setup, and not lose a hand, or even worse, your life. The people getting hurt are (almost) always the ones using fuses.

Edit: Typo

[Edited on 2012-5-30 by Fossil]
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 04:09


Wow @Phantom, I just can't believe it how can you syntheze that much of acetone peroxide without releasing that you got a 99% on an accidental detonation, seriously 1kg of tatp , that's just.. sick! You have to be totaly ungraduated, insane & have a sick mind to do that kind of stuff.

I have done 47 syntheses on acetone peroxide my highest yield was 1.33g and I never will go any higher, normally it's about 200mg. I only had one accidental detonation of a 176mg sample and I can tell you that it's like a gunshot exploding next to your ear. It scares the hack out of you and you hear a high beep for several minutes after the explosion. Also glass was all over the place , but I made my own "reinforced fumehood" that's really very usefull , it catches all the glass!

The video you linked is also fun to watch, seriously, 200g AP ! and mixing that quite roughly , I still don't get it why it didn't went off.
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 04:58


AP is a weird stuff, sometimes you hit it with a hammer and it does not detonate, sometimes it detonates without any warning just as it is sitting... As PETN, NG, EGDN, RDX are available you do not need more than half a gram of primary...



When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 11:39


CreativePyroScience@ It wasn't made by me at all. Nickname : Phone who was a member of roguesci he synthesized it and blew himself up.

I know how it feels like.
Once 200-300mg HMTD went off about 40cm away from me. I couldn't here for seconds and I couldn't hear well in the next week.

[Edited on 30-5-2012 by Phantom]




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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 11:57


If you are getting accidental detonations of AP you definitely do not have the trimmer or have not neutralized it properly. It is not unpredictable if it is made correctly.
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 13:09


Well, one more story. It happened 20 years ago. One wise boy wanted to get some money and made hand grenades- for bandits, of course. TATP + AN, no primer- a hunter's match instead of it. it burns for long time, therefore one has few seconds to throw it away before flame reaches main charge. Something seemed wrong for him in this construction, and this boy tried to extract aforementioned match from a charge with a nail. he made some movements and suddenly became cold. "What am I doing?" came to his mind. "I'll blow up myself!" At that very moment a bird made noise outdoor- he turned head to that side and made one last movement. This bird saved him one eye. Fingers at his left hand just evaporated- no single piece of bone was found. Blood drained from many holes in his chest. Had he incorporated some steel (nails, screws or similar shit intended to kill) into that charge, this boy would have been killed undoubtedly. Nothing to say, he got just that he deserved.



Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 14:41


Makes my pound of primer powder set off a arms length with a lit paper towel look mild to some of the shit kids are trying now a days. I just lost an eyebrow out of the deal myself.
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 17:40


What type of primer powder are you referring to? I cant imagine a pound of any common energetic going off at arms length to not cause any serious harm.
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[*] posted on 30-5-2012 at 18:20


Black powder, as in FFFF.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by hyfalcon]
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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 02:56


caterpillar, can you tell us more about this acident? What was the hull of the charge, why did he continued after he "become cold"? What's that hunter's match? (it would be ridiculous if it's a match with just extended mixture) What could've went wrong with the nail, there're not supposed to be metal parts so how did it ignite? There are some myths of AP going of by itself but there's never complete iformation.
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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 03:14


That is because AP does not go off by itself if it was made correctly. It really is not as bad as people make it out to be. As long as good safety procedures are followed, you will not get hurt. You need to prepare it the right way, keep the temp under 5C during addition, let the reaction proceed in a freeze or in a sub-zero environment, and proper neutralization of the product.
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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 03:58


I never rely that it wont go of by itself. I always handle like a psycho devil with a blowtorch and a bucket of Al powder is right behind me. And who knows if it wont be me who will set it off :D
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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 07:52


Quote: Originally posted by Fossil  
That is because AP does not go off by itself if it was made correctly. It really is not as bad as people make it out to be. As long as good safety procedures are followed, you will not get hurt. You need to prepare it the right way, keep the temp under 5C during addition, let the reaction proceed in a freeze or in a sub-zero environment, and proper neutralization of the product.


True, but the temp does not have to be that low, but when you let the temp. rise too high, it will decompose after some of it was formed (due to the acid). TATP oxidizes HCl to chlorine gas, btw. That's why TATP has chlorine-like odor when neutralized unproperly.

Formation of the Diperoxide is very unfavored, fortunately.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by Adas]




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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 08:50


@Fossil I dissagree with you. I neutralized that sample with 100ml of distilled sodium bicarbonate and 50ml of fresh water. When I tried to pick up the 176mg of TATP with a wooden spoon it detonated , and I wasn't putting any pressure at all, I very carefully used a paper to put it on the spoon but it just wen't off. Acetone peroxide should never be considered safe and you should keep in mind that TATP can go off at any moment and you shouldn't make any larger quantities than 1g because of that, making more is suicidal (Yes I once made 1.33g.. --"). There are hundred of stories from people who synthesized 2g+ amounts of TATP that went off accidental and there are lots of people who lost their fingers, hands , hearing and life due to being not careful and making too much of TATP.
TATP should be treated with respect and it's actually too easy to synthesize, bad nature ;)

@Phantom I know it wasn't meant perosnal at you, but at Phone although it might look like that :)

@Adas I use sulfuric acid as a catalyst never tried HCl.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]
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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 13:59


Quote: Originally posted by CrEaTiVePyroScience  
@Fossil I dissagree with you. I neutralized that sample with 100ml of distilled sodium bicarbonate and 50ml of fresh water. When I tried to pick up the 176mg of TATP with a wooden spoon it detonated , and I wasn't putting any pressure at all, I very carefully used a paper to put it on the spoon but it just wen't off. Acetone peroxide should never be considered safe and you should keep in mind that TATP can go off at any moment and you shouldn't make any larger quantities than 1g because of that, making more is suicidal (Yes I once made 1.33g.. --"). There are hundred of stories from people who synthesized 2g+ amounts of TATP that went off accidental and there are lots of people who lost their fingers, hands , hearing and life due to being not careful and making too much of TATP.
TATP should be treated with respect and it's actually too easy to synthesize, bad nature ;)

@Phantom I know it wasn't meant perosnal at you, but at Phone although it might look like that :)

@Adas I use sulfuric acid as a catalyst never tried HCl.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]


If you are not able to synthesize AP properly, you obviously should not be making any energetics, period. Also, your 1.33 gram synthesis is nothing to brag about and is far from suicidal.

Quote: Originally posted by Adas  


True, but the temp does not have to be that low, but when you let the temp. rise too high, it will decompose after some of it was formed (due to the acid). TATP oxidizes HCl to chlorine gas, btw. That's why TATP has chlorine-like odor when neutralized unproperly.

Formation of the Diperoxide is very unfavored, fortunately.

[Edited on 31-5-2012 by Adas]


I prefer the low temp as it gives me added security and assures the formation of the trimmer. That is, it assures the formation of the trimmer when it is coupled with a sub zero environment while the reaction is taking place. I also let the reaction take place for 48hrs and never less. I know that is excessive, however it gives me peace of mind that everything has reacted properly.

Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
I never rely that it wont go of by itself. I always handle like a psycho devil with a blowtorch and a bucket of Al powder is right behind me. And who knows if it wont be me who will set it off :D


Same here, I wear my rag-tag BOD suit whenever I handle TATP. Thick welding gloves, ear plugs, full faceshield mounted on a hard hat, hockey elbow pads and my hockey shoulder pads. I never compromise on wearing this when I am handling TATP, whether it be filtering or packing it into cartridges. If something goes wrong, I hope it will help me.
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[*] posted on 31-5-2012 at 21:28


I do not know that boy directly, but one of my friends (same person who made 1.5 l of NG at once) does. Hunter's match is a match with long and big head- it burns violently for relatively long time and is used in wilderness to ignite firewood. I do not think (and I agree with Fossil) that TATP is an extremly dangerous compound. There are some more sensitive ones. But if one will break a single crystal of TATP with something hard like steel nail (not that one, that is growing at your finger) explosion MAY occur. Just as it happened. I cannot tell you, why this boy continued. He wanted extract match from charge. Why I ignited fuse after it had become too short?



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[*] posted on 1-6-2012 at 06:40


@Fossil , pathetic that you are judging me on how I make acetone peroxide if you are just typing this from your computer without knowing anything about how I work. You obviously don't know where you are talking about.
And after 48h not everything has reacted yet.. Seriously I have done multiple measurements and had always more yields after 72h+ than 48hours. You just filter it off it doesn't matter...


You know what? Ill make a video on how I make acetone peroxide and then it's your turn to correct but I bet you will find any corrections. How about that?

Acetone peroxide is never safe dude.


[Edited on 1-6-2012 by CrEaTiVePyroScience]
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[*] posted on 1-6-2012 at 07:29


I cool the acetone and the peroxide to -5C seperately, mix and let them cool again. After they are at less then -5C I begin adding HCl. I use kinda lot of HCl and get small crystals within less then a hour. For less then few hours it looks like this
http://www.google.bg/search?sugexp=chrome,mod%3D2&q=yogu...
and instead of waiting more I filter and wash with distilled water, then with methanol. Dry in warm dark, ventilated place. It only acidently detonated when I left it on the sun, but it doesn't pop when I walk over it (hmdt does)
I'm close to the optimum right?
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[*] posted on 1-6-2012 at 08:00


@Ral123

That's a .. yoghurt link? ;)
Is it accidental or do you mean it looks quite cloudy, which is very normal.
And it indeed detonates/deflagrates at very low temperatures, the sun will set it off on a warm day.
It depends if you walk over it bearfoot, with socks it won't detonate because your skin/socks are quite soft and will make space for TATP but if you would wear strong combat boots for example it will detonate.
I don't think the -5°C is neccesary I always keep it around 3-6°C and works fine, but you can never be safe enough , indeed! What are the quantities that you make?
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[*] posted on 1-6-2012 at 08:40


Once my standart was like 70-100g. Now 10-15g. When I was even younger kid/14 years old/ I mixed in a 400ml jar. Filtration? What filtration? Neutra....what? Just shake up the yoghurt from the jar to a 2l box from ice cream and let dry for few days(the procedure was kinda wierd with H2SO4 :D). Then proudly carry 10g samlpe in medicine box with me in school. Show others in the school lab how it burns-grab little amounts and place over the burner till it begun hissing when I try to grab more :D Btw My first synth was with totally sick proportions witch gave something like tear gas and was supprisingly effective at ruining furniture. I don't know what was I doing with so much ap but I never did any significant explosive device. For the next years I was more into spudgunning and rc models and was fine just with the illussion that I can make some explosive if I need.
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[*] posted on 1-6-2012 at 08:48


No offence but it looks here are alot of peoples on this forum making TATP just for "making an explosive" without knowing anything about the chemistry and danger behind it. That's very dangerous because one accident can change your life.

Imagine if the 100g that you made exploded right next to you, then you won't be here today.. ;)
"Carrying 10-15g of TATP to school.. , really you never had an accident??

I know I might sound overprotective but I speak from experience, just 200mg of TATP is like a gunshot and gives eardamage.. I don't want to imagine what happends when 15g explodes in that medicine box while you are carrying it.
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