Gearhead_Shem_Tov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 22-8-2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Model Chemical Engineering?
Is anyone interested in the idea of doing model chemical engineering? I'm thinking of this in analogy to model engineering vs. full-scale
engineering. Lots of folks build working models of various bits of machinery, the most popular of which is probably the live-steam locomotive.
The attraction of model engineering seems to be the aesthetics of model-building combined with non-trivial engineering. Has anyone tried a similar
approach to chemistry? Amateur chemistry, it's often noted on this forum, is inherently small-scale, and so-called chemical engineering problems are
thought too big and are thus (at least tacitly) discouraged. But should this be the case?
I'm mostly just thinking out loud, but suppose part of the pleasure to be derived from hobby chemistry came from miniature replication of important
industrial processes? Obviously you can't miniaturise 40-meter-tall cracking towers, but there must be lots of other processes where size isn't as
critical. I don't have any particular processes in mind, but I'm sure folks here could think of some.
Are there any "legs" to this idea? I'm a sculptor by trade, and I'd be interested in ideas along this line.
-Bobby
|
|
|
gsd
National Hazard
Posts: 847
Registered: 18-8-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
@ Bobby,
To begin with browse thru' the pre-publication section. You will find few threads in which miniature Chem Engg is in action. e.g. your fellow
countryman has made a working model of electrolytic cell to make Sodium metal.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9797
Also Garagechemist's tube furnace to make CS2.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10564
gsd
|
|
|
MountainMan
Harmless
Posts: 20
Registered: 6-4-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I share your interest. There is a great deal of work in at least several areas that might be of interest to you. I'd suggest that you Google 'Flow
Chemistry', 'Microreactors', 'Lab On Chip', and/or 'Microfluidics'
I'm relatively new to the forum but have been reading it for several years. My undergraduate degree included a minor in chemistry (1970) and then I
switched to Medicine (Pathology) for my career after military service. As I approach retirement, I've made a small biochem and electronics lab as a
retirement hobby. I'm:) in the process of building a microscale flow injection analysis (FIA) instrument. First project will probably be to set up a
fermentation system using yeast and then using the FIA to monitor byproduct production (ethanol, butanol, etc).
|
|
|
bob800
Hazard to Others
Posts: 240
Registered: 28-7-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Or can you?... http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/09/03/table-top-oil-refi...
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
That's an apparatus. I believe his point is to make a miniaturized, working part of a chemical plant. Hence the "model" in model chemical engineering.
|
|
|
Gearhead_Shem_Tov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 22-8-2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes, I recall reading through that thread on Garagechemist's exploits with CS2 back then. Very inspiring -- but also quite daunting.
-B
|
|
|
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Gearhead_Shem_Tov  | | I'm mostly just thinking out loud, but suppose part of the pleasure to be derived from hobby chemistry came from miniature replication of important
industrial processes? |
I'm not so much interested in the model aspect, but I am interested in the
miniaturization part, by which I mean I'm not particularly interested in something that looks the same (and also functions), but rather something that
has a useful synthesis function. Contrary to ordinary lab practice, which uses reconfigurable glassware, such miniature plants would need to target
reusability in its components.
By miniature, I've been thinking that a good target size is 1 - 4 m3 in volume. Dimensional plywood is either 1.2 m x 2.4 m or 2' x 4'
(they're very close in size) and a simple box made with 4 full panels for sides and 2 halves for ends comes out to about 3.5 m3. That's
"garage scale" or "pallet scale". It's a size that's not so large it couldn't be moved around on wheels or a pallet jack, and large enough to get
decent working volume inside.
It's also become really very clear that fabrication skills in multiple materials are paramount. Metal, glass, wood, plastic, and electronics are the
obvious ones. It's a combination of skills that are most often found in a club than a single individual. Personally, I'm very bullish on ceramics to
be useful here as well, although that will take some development to be useful.
I mentioned electronics because it seems necessary to make such a project work. It used to be that the sensors and control software in a chemical
plant were so expensive that it was infeasible to even think about miniaturizing them. That has changed. Solenoid valves are still quite pricey,
though I can't figure out where all the expense comes from; they're a candidate for small-shop CNC fabrication.
As for things to make, sulfuric acid is an obvious candidate, as it's the highest volume product of the chemical industry. Nitric acid is another,
using cobalt oxide for catalytic oxidation of ammonia. I have a thesis that both of these could be done with ceramics. The square-cube difference
works in favor of garage scale for these. I am not confident in the strength of a ceramic pipe 2 m in diameter and perfectly confident in one only 40
mm in diameter.
Another one that I've been gathering materials and parts for is coal tar; the plan is for a barrel-size coking furnace that operates also as a
condensing still for dry distillation. I think that one will end up being a two-unit size (7 m3), but only because there's a lot of pipe.
Incidentally, coal seems to be a good source of ammonia; ordinary coking furnaces run hot enough to oxidize it. Temperature control throughout the
apparatus is paramount for pulling this off.
I've also been mulling over whether making borosilicate glass from scrap flint glass and sacks of borax is feasible. Glass vats need some decent size
to avoid too-great heat losses, so that works against the smallest sizes. Also, such glass wouldn't be of the highest purity, with significant iron
and manganese in it, but it might well be adequate for shop-made QVF-style cast ware.
|
|
|
arsphenamine
Hazard to Others
Posts: 236
Registered: 12-8-2010
Location: I smell horses, Maryland, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | | Solenoid valves are still quite pricey, though I can't figure out where all the expense comes from; they're a candidate for small-shop CNC
fabrication. |
As I cost out parts for repairing a 30 yr old kinetic sculpture that
<b>shoots flame when you yell at it</b>, I note that the three most expensive items are the
borosilicate cannon barrel, the HV transformer, and the gas solenoid, in that order.
Part of the <b>flammable</b> gas solenoid valve expense is UL certification and product liability.
Without these issues satisfied, the sculpture can never again see a public installation.
I count myself lucky to have found a solenoid valve for under $50.
|
|
|
Gearhead_Shem_Tov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 22-8-2008
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes | I'm not so much interested in the model aspect, but I am interested in the miniaturization part, by which I mean I'm not particularly interested in
something that looks the same (and also functions), but rather something that has a useful synthesis function.
...
By miniature, I've been thinking that a good target size is 1 - 4 m3 in volume. ... That's "garage scale" or "pallet scale". It's a size
that's not so large it couldn't be moved around on wheels or a pallet jack, and large enough to get decent working volume inside.
... |
I'm very much interested in these ideas, too. I suppose by model I tend to think "semi-scale" because function has higher priority than form for me.
(But as a sculptor I am still interested in form.)
"Garage scale" sounds good to me. Or maybe "washing machine scale" (i.e. narrow enough and short enough you can wheel it through a standard doorway).
It puts the proper scale on things, so you don't need a ladder or cherry picker just to work on the thing.
-Bobby
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
