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Author: Subject: cheddite
markx
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[*] posted on 9-1-2014 at 11:59


Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  

Just drink some Vodka, the Russian will be just flowing out of you then. :D


Ya...the cuss words!
The long ones we call the "triplet state"....when you combine 3 curse words into one awsome one :D :D




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Hennig Brand
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[*] posted on 9-1-2014 at 15:47


I am learning more about Russian culture all the time. :)

Didn't know about the OCR thing actually until earlier today, as I don't do a lot of translation usually. The few programs I tried first didn't seem to be able to deal with that particular text. I just found a method that works to translate the document. Convert the pages to jpeg images, then load images into this Russian OCR text extractor. http://www.i2ocr.com/free-online-russian-ocr
The obtained text can be copy/pasted into a translator. I used Google Translate, but there are probably better ones. I can get the meaning out of most of the translation, but it's not exactly perfect English.

[Edited on 9-1-2014 by Hennig Brand]




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[*] posted on 10-1-2014 at 05:35


Quote: Originally posted by papaya  
MNT is toxic so no wonders on its bad effects.


It is definitely toxic, but in my case the effects are very rapid from just a tiny whiff of MNT vapor. From reading, I think people’s sensitivity to a lot of these chemicals varies wildly. I have seen several sources talk about first determining a new munitions plant employee's sensitivity to the chemical(s) involved (a nitroaromatic of some sort) before deciding if they could in fact work there.




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[*] posted on 10-1-2014 at 14:16


I thought I had already posted this but cannot find the post. It is regading a cheddite that uses ammonium perchlorate. It recommends the following:

Ammonium perchlorate (powdered) - 9 ubw

Petroleum jelly - 1 ubw OR
Castor oil - 0.9 ubw OR
Kerosene - 0.9 ubw OR
Diesel oil - 0.9 ubw OR
Cooking oil (any type) - 0.9 ubw

I feel diesal or kerosene will yield best results as it's quite flamable on it's own. I also have dextrin and guar gum, so I may try add a small amount for to binding.
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[*] posted on 10-1-2014 at 21:17


Do you have any references? Was there any information from those references about the qualities of the above mixture? Try to resist simply posting "recipes".



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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 10:02


Would adding a few% of Al sensitize it enough that it can be set of from a flash powder?




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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 10:20


I really doubt it. You will need a fast primary and maybe even a bit of secondary in a well made cap to work with cheddite. Flash powder wont even wake up the very sensitive secondaries like ETN reliably. Flash powder is just way to slow.



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[*] posted on 16-1-2014 at 07:49


Can ETN detonate cheddite, if so how much would be necessary?



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[*] posted on 16-1-2014 at 08:10


Yes it can. That depends in how much, and of what kind of "cheddite" you are talking about. Different compositions vary in sensitivity greatly.



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[*] posted on 16-1-2014 at 09:32


I'm thinking, just KClO3-Petroleum jelly 9-1 ratio. I've never made ETN before, but I can, I'll make a couple grams I guess.... How long can I store it, outside of course.



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[*] posted on 16-1-2014 at 12:13


That depends on your neutralization and recrystalizations. As well as inclided stabilizers. Please read up thoroughly on this compound. Quicksilver has posted a lot of good Info about it in the past.



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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 04:05


Hey guys,

I've got a stack of homemade chlorate here and I'm ready for some experimentation :)
There are a few thing about those cheddites bother me, maybe you can enlighten me a little.

The amount of fuel.
It seems like the amount of fuel is independent from stoichiometry, but rather on the fact how wet the stuff is?
Common mixtures for Na and K Chlorate are interchangeable. The extra oxygen of the Na salt does not seem to play any role here...?
According to Urbanski 10% seem to be optimal, but less is more easily detonated.

What's your experience?


Do cheddites benefit from small amounts of metal?
Locking at AN mixtures, even 2% Dark Al in mixtures like GRG1 ect. make a huge difference.
I want a higher Vdet, thermobaric afterburn effects aren't important.


Critical diameter
Any opinion about how slender a charge could be for small boreholes?
Last time I did some testing in 20mm plastic pipes with 9% paraffine oil and detonation was transmitted over 200mm, the damage on the 2mm iron plate was constant over the hole path.

I wonder how small one can go, and see above, if some aluminium would help...?



Large crystal formation
Vaseline seems to recrystalise the chlorate over time creating large crystals and insensitive cheddite.

Is there reason to believe that this happen with paraffine oil too?


[Edited on 2-11-2014 by Gargamel]
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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 08:32


Success! 165 grams of Cheddite(Vaseline and Potassium Chlorate9:1) with a 3g ETN booster detonated just half an hour ago.

<iframe sandbox width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tRBT-RuQB3I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<a href="http://imgur.com/VDyteWz"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/VDyteWz.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

[Edited on 2-11-2014 by forgotpassword]
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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 12:29
failure


This photo does not say anything about the performance of explosives. It was a detonation? Or just a deflagration? The bomb did not explode. I see sprayed chlorate. 165 grams of explosive with a VoD 3000 m/s must break the chair concrete curb. This is a failure. No success.
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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 13:19


It was propped up against the curb, that is not sprayed chlorate, that is bits of concrete/ tarmac/ dirt that was sprayed onto the road.
Watch the video again and tell me that was not a detonation.
You obviously do not know what you are talking about, how could that have possibly been a deflagration?


[Edited on 2-11-2014 by forgotpassword]
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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 13:39


It does look weak for 165 grams of explosive. I agree with LL on this one, in the absence of more conclusive evidence (the video doesn't tell much).

Also, blowing up roads generally isn't a good idea (although if it's a private road and you own it then I guess it's OK).


[Edited on 2-11-2014 by Cheddite Cheese]




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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 13:51


I'm not sure then, it looks and it definitely sounded like a full detonation to me.
I can't see no reason why it wouldn't detonate.

You may be underestimating the strength of that concrete curb, look how thick it is.
I used a straw filled with ETN and a little bit of SADS to initiate the ETN.
Then I placed 3 grams of ETN in some Al foil and placed the straw cap in and wrapped the ETN around it tightly.

The actual cheddite was a 9:1 ratio of Potassium Chlorate to Vaseline. The Vaseline was placed in a 600ml beaker and melted and the potassium chlorate placed in and manually mixed for 20 minutes.
I placed the cheddite into a balloon as seen here:
<a href="http://imgur.com/yAtLG0R"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/yAtLG0R.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 14:10


I saw the crack in the curb, but I still am not sure that the cheddite had a full detonation. Are you sure that the noise of detonation wasn't just the noise of the booster detonating? Even small detonations are very loud. (I can't tell myself because shockwaves can't come out of speakers.)

3 grams of ETN might work for confined cheddite, but without confinement it may not be powerful enough. What was your potassium chlorate particle size? Generally, the finer, the more sensitive. Also, where was the initiator in the ball?




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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 14:19


I don't think so, I've done detonations of just a couple of grams of ETN before and it was not as loud as that was, it definitely did not create that big cloud of smoke.

I grinded up the Potassium Chlorate in a mortar before mixing and I cut a hole in the balloon, dug a little hole for my initiator, placed it in and pushed far in and then I squeezed the Cheddite together using the palm of my hands. Pretty confined.

Here is 200g of Cheddite another guy did, same type of cheddite as mine, it looks very similar to my explosion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBq13OHQFnU&t=4m40s
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 03:44
weak



Forgot: The preparation is good. Central initiation good. However: All the work done only 3 grams ETN. The 3 grams ETN brought to detonation by about 10% cheddite. Max 20 g detonated VOD 3000 m / s. Everything else was a deflagration. It is a pity application 3G ETN. Another thing: You need to get ( have, used) NH4NO3. This is the foundation. Cheddite production are dangerous. And they have a weak performance. This is clearly seen.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 05:59
deformator


If you can, do this:

deformator.jpg - 63kB
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 14:22


I thought 3g of ETN would be more than sufficient to set it off.
What do you suggest using?

I don't have access to Ammonium Nitrate, terrorist organisations use it in fertiliser bombs here.
I don't think my cheddite would deflagrade without strong heating, I have tested this before.
Where are you getting that number from, 3000m/s? That could be for other cheddites such as Kerosene and KClO3 or as you said NH4NO3.
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 17:44


Quote: Originally posted by Hennig Brand  
I am learning more about Russian culture all the time. :)

Didn't know about the OCR thing actually until earlier today, as I don't do a lot of translation usually. The few programs I tried first didn't seem to be able to deal with that particular text. I just found a method that works to translate the document. Convert the pages to jpeg images, then load images into this Russian OCR text extractor. http://www.i2ocr.com/free-online-russian-ocr
The obtained text can be copy/pasted into a translator. I used Google Translate, but there are probably better ones. I can get the meaning out of most of the translation, but it's not exactly perfect English.

[Edited on 9-1-2014 by Hennig Brand]


My friend maniac scientist Misha (this person made NG in large amounts) recommended translator from Microsoft. he told me that translators from Russian to English generally work better than opposite ones. I can only say that I never saw good translation to Russian, made with the aid of an automatic translator.




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Hennig Brand
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[*] posted on 4-11-2014 at 01:47


I think you are right about the translators; at least from what I have seen.


http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19712&...

What is linked to is something I posted back on page three of this thread. The potassium chlorate and Vaseline Cheddite is not an ideal explosive like TNT and most of the other military explosives. Comparing a Cheddite (or ANFO) to the more ideal explosives is comparing apples to oranges. Many things effect the detonation velocity of a Cheddite. Cheddites in general have very low brisance and pore shattering ability, in comparison to modern military explosives, even when they do detonate properly. With strong confinement, like what is typically found in a bore hole, Cheddite explosives can do a lot of useful work. However, because of their low brisance produce very poor results when used on hard targets unconfined. It is possible that the un-ideal Cheddite being tested detonated at a velocity considerably less than 3000m/s as well.

Cheddites are a poor practical choice if better explosives are available, but there have been places and times when not much else was available. I find Cheddites interesting.


[Edited on 4-11-2014 by Hennig Brand]




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[*] posted on 4-11-2014 at 09:26
cheddite


Henning is right. An attempt was made. Everything is in the picture. Cheddite is weak explosive. Paraffin is better of grease. I used the soot from the chimney. Paraffin dissolve in clear gasoline. When 40C. Add KClO3 + fine soot. Shaken. Pour into the pan and dried at 50C. Hand pressed the tube. Full detonation from No.10. But poor performance on the mat, sheet metal. Below is a comparison composition based on AP. Another needless words.
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cheddite.jpg - 384kB
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