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Author: Subject: Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide
alien14305
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[*] posted on 4-12-2002 at 19:03
frozen NG


Someone wrote once and said MEKP froze at -5*C when they were making it. I also read someone said it froze at -5*C
to -10*C My question is would little crystals of MEKP make the dynamite more sensitive like NG becomes? Sorry for all these questions but, i am a little paranoid of it going off. I guess if you put non absorbant hard material into MEKP of NG that will make it more sensitive. So that is why all desensitize is soft and absorbant, am I correct?
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Energy84
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[*] posted on 4-12-2002 at 19:17


I've heard of MEKP+KNO3 dynamite before and am wondering if anybody has every tried it before and in what ratios?
I bought a 22ml bottle of "LIQUID HARDNER (MEKP)" and the MSDS says that it contains:
1-2% Hydrogen Peroxide
30-40% Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide
50-60% Dimethyl Phthalate
http://www.bondo-online.com/bnd_cds/product_msds/5405.pdf
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binary mz
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[*] posted on 5-12-2002 at 02:03


same as madscientist post: 11mL mekp/100g AN kept in a h202 bottle. detonated with AP w/ elmers rubbing cement. 50ml mek/80ml h202/30ml hcl. 24 hours later theres a nice big glob in the mason jar. i wouldnt try freezing the stuff. ive never seen it kept long, it was just mixed at site and used from what i remember. :) activated AN/Al. w/ mekp sounds nice.
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frogfot
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[*] posted on 6-12-2002 at 11:10


The way i see it, frosen NG is sencitive because when crystalls of it are touching eachother or other hard objects, the bondings in substance are being stressed against their will (because molecules have no way to go, but sit in the crystall). That can break some bondings and cause chain decomposition...
So, that "theory" tells us that all sencitive liquid explosives should be more sencitive when they ubtain crystalline form. That should include MEKP.
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binary mz
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[*] posted on 7-12-2002 at 02:03


we had a good conversation going then it went silent. lets pick it back up... how does everyone neuteralize there mekp ? i prefer baking soda over amonia. then i let it sit there at an angel in the mason jar, syphon off the majority of the water/h202/mek and let the rest evaporate in a glass tray. sometimes i get tons and tons of little bubbles of mekp or one big glob. any ideas ? its then stored in a plastic bottle. so how does everyone like to use this ?
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[*] posted on 7-12-2002 at 13:33


What kind of plastic bottle do you use? MEK will dissolve many plastics, and I was under the impression that MEKP was the same way.

BTW, another possible use for MEKP that has struck me is as a source of free radicals in certain organic syntheses... Such as halogenation reactions! Organic synthetic procedures that call for intense light on the reaction vessel are using photogenerated free radicals. But MEKP might be a handier source of such radicals than an industrial strength UV light source. I have seen at least one procedure for preparing benzyl chloride that uses benzoyl peroxide as its free radical source. MEKP is easier to synthesize than benzoyl peroxide. I wonder if it could be substituted.

Even cooler would be if one could synthesize (mono/di/tri)chloroacetic acid from acetic acid, trichloroisocyanuric acid (a fairly common chemical used for pool/spa chlorination), and MEKP. I, for one, would be overjoyed not to have to bubble dry chlorine gas through hot acetic acid mixed with phosphorus... But my imagination exceeds my knowledge. I have no clue if it is worth exploring anything along these lines.
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binary mz
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[*] posted on 8-12-2002 at 00:09


its a dark brown h202 bottle. i have not had any problems with it yet... anybody mix mekp with anything else besides the usual nitates ?
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lucifer
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[*] posted on 8-12-2002 at 04:59


I was wondering if petn soaked with mekp would make a “safe detonator” that is ,safer than acetone peroxide or Hmtd?
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alien14305
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[*] posted on 8-12-2002 at 08:02


Yesterday I just made 15 extra dollars in tips so i am gonna start to go buy some stuff to make some dynamite. I am going to buy wallpaper glue for the casings and some steel pipe to wrap the casing around when making it. I got the idea of a good safe way to make a detanator safely but i can't soak it into nitrates. Ok i will drill a 3/8 inch hole aboout 3 inches deep into an 10"x8"X6" solid oak block. I will crimp copper tubing shut at one end and the other end put a 1/8" steel rod it to the tube and crimp the other end of the tube around it. This will leave an 1/8" fuse hole. I will put the tubbing into the oak block and take a chemical resistant eyedropper and drip the MEKP into the tubbing through the fuse hole. When I get 1 milliliter into the cap I will then insert the fuse through the hole. I take the finished cap out of the oak block which i think will shield most of the blast if the cap does go off. I then wrap the whole cap in duct tape and help hold the fuse in. I think this will be safe to do.
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[*] posted on 3-1-2003 at 10:45


Rikkitikkitavi: Have you tried it yet and if so could you perhaps post some info like yields etc.

Biltema is too far away for me, know any other sources?
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[*] posted on 3-1-2003 at 11:03


Can't edit:

Rikkitikkitavi:


You bought MEKB??
How did you extrakt it?
And where can I find MEK?
How sensitive is this compound compared to AP, HMTD, RDX, PETN, NG, TNT.

x Nm friction sensitivity and y Nm shock sensitivity doesn't say too much I reckon.
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[*] posted on 3-1-2003 at 11:04


God dammit! When will we be able to edit?

That bold B is of course P.
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lucifer
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[*] posted on 12-1-2003 at 17:38


Does someone has sensitivity data for MEKP in Nm ?

Also if my information is wright, MEKP will explode if it gets in contact with conc. H2SO4,
So wouldn’t it be dangerous to add 98% H2SO4 to the mix of MEK / H2O2.
During the addition of H2SO4 the MEKP that is formed could come in contact with the newly added 98% H2SO4,
And could explode.
So wouldn’t it be better to dilute the H2SO4 to 50% before adding, it also doesn’t make the “ssss” sound if you do this.
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[*] posted on 12-1-2003 at 17:52


I would either dilute the sulfuric acid prior to adding it to the MEK/H2O2 solution; or add the MEK to a solution of H2O2 and sulfuric acid.



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[*] posted on 31-3-2003 at 15:22


Quote:
Originally posted by TheBear

And where can I find MEK?


methyl ethyl ketone is used as liquid plastic cement in modeling. It looks something like this:

http://www.testors.com/catalog_item.asp?itemNbr=1450

METK is attractive to me because I have sodium bicarbonate , sulfuric acid (battery acid refill concentration), and methyl ethyl ketone, hydrogen peroxide (3% household concentration), and aluminum foil. Also, it sounds like it would be easy enough to detonate.

However, I don't think it's a good idea for me. Procedure sounds somewhat complicated and dangerous, with temperature being so crucial. METK sounds almost as unstable as nitrogylcerine. I want to make some high-explosive that doesn't require a booster to detonate, but I don't think I'm experienced enough with explosives to make this stuff.

What do you think? Is this a bad pick for first timers like myself?



[Edited on 3/31/2003 by Cappy]
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[*] posted on 31-3-2003 at 15:26
Is this thread dead?


Any further developents from you guys?
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[*] posted on 31-3-2003 at 15:34


If you decide to start, start with stuff like nitrostarch, nitroceulose, and Picric acid, then move on to peroxide, then more sencitive things, dont evn worrie about detonating the first stuff you make. I myself wish i would have started with things like i sugested to you, my first was a fulminate, and i dont sugest making them until your ready.

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[*] posted on 7-4-2003 at 18:26
MEKP for sale


i found 10oz for $6(us) at this site
http://www.tapplastics.com/fiberglass/polyester_resins/12_me...

would MEKP/AN be a bad idea? by bad i mean worse than APAN
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[*] posted on 7-4-2003 at 20:50


Thanks for the link Skean Dhu.

What do you guys think? Is there any risk with buying prepared chemicals such as this?

I imagine it is in anhydrous dimeric form, as a more powerful and sensitive form would be even less safe for use as a hardener (some heat is evolved when resin and hardener mix). Can anyone confirm if commericial MEKP is usable, and if it can be converted more easily than MEK if it is not in anhydrous dimeric form?

[Edited on 4/8/2003 by Cappy]
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[*] posted on 8-4-2003 at 09:30


Quote:
Originally posted by Skean Dhu
would MEKP/AN be a bad idea? by bad i mean worse than APAN

From my own experiance AN/MEKP Was much more stable than ANAP. It took a very hard hit from a hammer to get it to go off, unlike ANAP which was much easier to set off by a hammer hit. Plus it is well known that MEKP is more stable than AP is.




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[*] posted on 1-5-2003 at 16:24


AP is definately more sensitive than MEKP, and NG for that mattter! ive done some tests and found MEKP considerably less sensitive to hammer blow than NG! although

i am still patial to NG, i just like it, loves to chuck dirt.

for some reason im more comfortable with NG, i feel more confident with it.

[Edited on 5/2/03 by Madog]




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[*] posted on 6-5-2003 at 17:53


From the page that Skean Dhu posted.

Quote:

Available in 8 lb size by phone order only


Just tie a hefty cap to the side of the container and light. That's just too easy.

Also, I've attempted to use the unpurified Bondo brand MEKP to sensitize AN and it failed miserably. A waste of two professional caps I might add.
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[*] posted on 7-5-2003 at 20:57


The Bondo brand MEKP hardener is only 30-40% MEKP according to the MSDS.



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[*] posted on 8-5-2003 at 10:42


Hi!

This is an incredable board.
I´m from Germany and here it ist not possible to host such boards officially.
So excuse me for my english if I make some mistakes. :)

Today I made some MEKP and I am very plaesed with it.
It ist easy to make and safe to handle.

But I couldn´t find the oxygen balance of this stuff - can somebody help me out?

[Edited on 10-5-2003 by Marduk]
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[*] posted on 9-5-2003 at 10:24


See http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/methyl_ethyl_ketone_pe.... You'll notice that a mixture of different compounds is formed, not just one well-defined compound. But if you count the C, H, and O atoms in each of those molecules you can easily determine their individual oxygen balance values, then produce a weighted average for the mixture based on how much of the mixture they comprise. The short answer is that MEKP is quite oxygen deficient overall.

It is my (perhaps misinformed) understanding that certain types of speech (such as advocacy of racism or violence) are restricted in Germany, but I am surprised that chemistry discussion is not allowed. This is a chemistry forum after all, not a weapons forum.
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