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Author: Subject: Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide
sdrawkcab
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Yes, I always dilute my H2SO4 for MEKP. I never really worried about it so much with Acetone Peroxide, I didn't have a thermometer and I just added it very slowly.

I made another synthesis of MEKP and it's evaporating excess MEK and water right now. It seems I got a significantly greater yield when I did not add ice to the reaction. A 200 mL reaction (with approximately 47% H2SO4) gave me about 50 mL product.

Considering that my last synthesis had 100 mL of reactants and only 6 mL of yield...I can say that I will not be adding ice to my reaction anymore.
E-tech
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Just a quick thought-
has anyone tried adding something like guar gum to MEKP (or to the ammonium nitrate they are going to mix it with), in order to increase it's density, and maybe improve it'a handling properties?
Mixing with AN seems to make a good dynamite, perhaps a gelling agent could make a suitable peroxide gel- type of dynamite?
I'd try it myself, but I am still on an all expenses paid trip to somewhere with a lot of sand.
StevenRS
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Hmm.. First post.. Here goes...
I always had problems with detonating MEKP, until I did this. Put some paper in a blender, and blend it with water until it is pulp. Dry it, and mix it with MEKP. I just mix in paper pulp until it has a fairly thick consistency, and does not flow or drip excess MEKP. This is very easily detonated by flame or electrical ignitors(sp?), even in small amounts.

[Edited on 31-12-2007 by StevenRS]
Sauron
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Have you ever tried chapati fluor?

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StevenRS
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No, I have not. What exactly is chapati flour? I have never heard of it. Regular all-purpose flour works alright, too.
Rosco Bodine
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Cabosil , colloidal silica , might be a better material given the reactivity of the MEKP . It's a common item at boating supply stores , used as a fiberglass resin inert filler thickener .
zeppelin69
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While inert absorbers are good, and absorbers that burn are slightly better, would something that actualy compliments MEKP's already negetive oxygen balance be even better? IMHO as far as OTC stuff goes, you can't beat ammonium nitrate.

I am one of the original members of http://www.dererumomnis.org/bbs/
Sauron
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StevenRS, use the search engine for chapati and you will get an eyeful regarding reports of somt terrorists in UK using a similar mix...allegedly.

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~TCM~
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 Quote: Originally posted by StevenRS Hmm.. First post.. Here goes... I always had problems with detonating MEKP, until I did this. Put some paper in a blender, and blend it with water until it is pulp. Dry it, and mix it with MEKP. I just mix in paper pulp until it has a fairly thick consistency, and does not flow or drip excess MEKP. This is very easily detonated by flame or electrical ignitors(sp?), even in small amounts. [Edited on 31-12-2007 by StevenRS]

MEKP detonates much more consistantly when it is absorbed into something.
I have had success with saw dust, but as has been previously stated, mixing with NH4NO3 in the correct ratio to achieve a perfect oxygen balance, is IMO by far the best.
However to get MEKP/AN to detonate requires the use of a primary.

[Edited on 3-1-2008 by ~TCM~]

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StevenRS
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 Quote: However to get MEKP/AN to detonate requires the use of a primary.

I was referring to the use of MEKP as a primary, and for this, paper works great as an absorbent, in my opinion, a little better than sawdust.
Also, how would MEKP/AN function in a shaped charge? I have a feeling it would be too slow.

[Edited on 3-1-2008 by StevenRS]
Zinc
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I heard that at least 12% H2O2 must be used to make MEKP. Is that true or can lower concentrations be used? I have 6% H2O2. So if possible to make MEKP with it what ratios should I use?

StevenRS
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I tried making MEKP with 6%, and it did not work. I do not know why, though. It might work for you, so still try.
zeppelin69
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 Quote: Also, how would MEKP/AN function in a shaped charge? I have a feeling it would be too slow. [Edited on 3-1-2008 by StevenRS]

Most ammonium nitrate compositions are, with the obvious exceptions of ANNM and astrolite. I think if you use excess MEKP to the AN, you may be able to achieve some decent brisance though. I will more than likely try it out soon and post back with results, if you try it out aswell please do the same .

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Zinc
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I tried with 6 % H2O2. I mixed 14 ml of methyl ethyl ketone, 44 ml of H2O2 and 5 ml of 19% HCl. After two days I can see that the mixture turned from blue to turbid white and the smell of MEKP appeared. And there is an extremely thin layer on top of the liquid. I will leave it a few more days. I used ratios from someone who claimed that he made MEKP that way. The problem is perhaps that I didn't use pure MEK but a blue colored mixture that contains water, MEK, isopropyl alcohol and methoxyisopropanol. But the man who gave the ratios also used tat product. I have now acquired 12% H2O2 and will try with that. What ratios would be good for it assuming I use pure MEK?

zeppelin69
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The same as those for AP. At twelve percent peroxide, I would use about 2.2 times the volume of MEK so lets say you had 100ml MEK, I would use 220ml 12%H2O2, and of course the catalyst is personal preference, but I would use probably 15ml HCL.

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Mason_Grand_ANNdrews
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Hi Guys, ive only a little Question. Why is MEK so interesting ?

You can make a peroxide from all stuff what you can get. Long time ago
ive take some samples with different ketones and
the most of this have some nice attributes to make a peroxide.
A longer stuff have some more insensibility, but it`s never mind.
Ethylethylketone is more than shit against acetonperoxide.
A easy stuff (often described in the forum - prepared from aceton/HCl and H2O2).
Every peroxide have other conditions, i mean some aromatics
will work to give a very fine stuff to melt some high explosives into a block.
Do have anyone infos to make a peroxide, f.i. from bezoquinone
or somethink other stuff ?

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a new live !
Zinc
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 Quote: Originally posted by zeppelin69 The same as those for AP. At twelve percent peroxide, I would use about 2.2 times the volume of MEK so lets say you had 100ml MEK, I would use 220ml 12%H2O2, and of course the catalyst is personal preference, but I would use probably 15ml HCL.

I tried. I let it stand now for around 18 h. And no MEKP. I have acquired 30% H2O2 and will try with that. But I think that it doesn't work because my MEK is impure.

EDIT

It seems that after all some peroxide did form. Small bubbles are visible on the bottom. But I don't know if that is MEKP or IP. Will let it stand one more day.
And what ratios would be good for 30% hydrogen peroxide assuming I use pure MEKP?

[Edited on 11-1-2008 by Zinc]

zeppelin69
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I use 1:1 with 27.5% so that shoudl work well with 30% too. What source of MEK are you using?

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Zinc
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 Quote: Originally posted by zeppelin69 I use 1:1 with 27.5% so that shoudl work well with 30% too. What source of MEK are you using?

How much acid do you add?

I use a nail polish remover that contains MEK, isopropanol, methoxyisopropanol, water and a blue color. Someone used the same product and claimed that he did make MEKP from it using 6% peroxide. But I have now found a source of pure MEK and will use it.

[Edited on 12-1-2008 by Zinc]

zeppelin69
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The amount of acid will not make or break the reaction. It merely catalyzes it so the more you add, the faster it will go. If you have a 600ml solution, I would use 20ml HCl, or 40% H2SO4, but like I said, it doesn' really matter.

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Zinc
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I have tried now with 30% peroxide. I mixed 15 ml of MEK, 15 ml of peroxide and 5 ml of 19% HCl. Now after around 4 hours there is a nice layer of MEKP on the surface. I will let it stand one more day.

Zinc
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I have heard that MEKP and a solution of AP in MEKP do not need to be neutralized and that in fact residual acidity makes them more stable. Is that true? I have 65 grams of 50:50 MEKP/AP sitting in a measuring cylinder so I would like to know what is the safer thing to do before storage.

Rosco Bodine
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 Quote: Originally posted by Zinc I have heard that MEKP and a solution of AP in MEKP do not need to be neutralized and that in fact residual acidity makes them more stable. Is that true? I have 65 grams of 50:50 MEKP/AP sitting in a measuring cylinder so I would like to know what is the safer thing to do before storage.

I have a half liter of the 50/50 separated straight from
synthesis , unwashed , no neutralization , put into storage
in a cool and dark location , and showing zero decomposition after several years . No change whatsoever is evident .
497
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One day I was bored and happened to have a couple hundred grams 50/50 MEKP/AP so i drilled a 1/4 inch dia hole 8 inches into the center of a nice big log (maybe 1 foot diameter and 2.5 feet long) and filled it with about 10 ml of the good stuff. It ended up blowing each half of the log about 20 feet either direction. More than i had expected. For fuse I used a couple of feet of string dipped in the explosive, which works surprisingly well, lasting maybe 10-15 seconds. Also more recently I used about 30 ml in a little plastic bottle that i dropped in a hole in the snow. The snow was about a foot deep, it made a crater about 3 feet wide. The moral is that its a great explosive. The only complaint is that the area around the nails of your fingers burns and aches for a few hours after getting some residue on them, even after washing with acetone... well worth the pain anyhow.
StevenRS
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String soaked in the explosive!?! Maybe I'm missing something, but that sounds suicidal!!!
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Special topics » Energetic Materials » Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues