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Neil
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Iron metal is soft, almost as soft as pure copper. It has a disgustingly high melting point and very little chemical resistance.
Cast Iron is a eutectic mixture of carbon and iron, it has much more carbon then steel. It may or may not have a multitude of other elements mixed up
with it, Mn, P, Cr and so on.
Further more the carbon present in cast iron may be present as carbide formed by rapid cooling of the hot metal, aka white cast iron or it may be in
the format of flaked graphite which gives Grey cast iron it's appearance.
The difference in carbides and flake graphite modify the reactivity of the cast iron and the corrosion resistance.
Soft iron bailing wire might be a better source, steel wool is at the very least a potentially known alloy.
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CHRIS25
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Ok Neil. Thankyou for your extra information. I will try this one out as well and see the difference between the two reactions. Always good to
learn.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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barley81
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If you use steel wool, you will probably have to filter the solution because lots of gunk is produced when you dissolve it. At least this is the case
when you use sulfuric acid. The ferrous sulfate made in that way is actually pretty pure, so I think you can get a purer product if you use steel
wool.
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CHRIS25
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Ok thankyou Barley I will be doing this one in the next couple of days.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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CHRIS25
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Ferric Nitrate...well not quite
I apologise to the purists out there for the un-scientific methods and explanations here, it is just that I had given up on making ferric nitrate
proper because of the difficulties in this reaction but not wanting to waste what I already had attempted and always willing to try new things out,
so have no precise calculations for this one.
Getting inpatient after a week I decided to add steel wool to my solution of filtered dissolved cast Iron in nitric acid. As previously posted on
this subject I had a clear solution of ferric nitrate in rather a lot of nitric acid still and was leaving outside indefinitely. Anyway, getting
impatient because I desperately needed some ferric nitrate no matter how polluted so to speak - I decided to add steel wool to this until no more
dissolved. As expected I got a very very thick Red brown solution. Was on the point of heating this up when I decided to experiment with the as is
solution on copper and various heat treatments etc (metal work purposes - not chemistry), I got some very unexpected artistic possibilities from the
various stages of painting the solution on the copper drying and heating with blow torch. Due to this I would like to know what could basically be in
this solution besides an acidic Iron hydroxide and iron nitrate mixed, (has an exact PH of 2). And can I realistically do anything more with this
"Gunge" that I now call it, in order perhaps to purify things a little further.
[Edited on 28-5-2012 by CHRIS25]
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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Nicodem
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Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25  | | Getting inpatient after a week I decided to add steel wool to my solution of filtered dissolved cast Iron in nitric acid. |
As far as I would expect, ferric nitrate in aqueous solution should react with iron, so adding steel wool was not a very bright idea. Iron is a
reducing reagent and will reduce most Fe(III) species, especially in aqueous solutions.
You could try to reoxidize the iron in the solution by using nitric acid, but the only way to do this without contaminating too much with excess HNO3
would be to titrate it at a higher temperature until full conversion is achieved.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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weiming1998
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| Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25 | I apologise to the purists out there for the un-scientific methods and explanations here, it is just that I had given up on making ferric nitrate
proper because of the difficulties in this reaction but not wanting to waste what I already had attempted and always willing to try new things out,
so have no precise calculations for this one.
Getting inpatient after a week I decided to add steel wool to my solution of filtered dissolved cast Iron in nitric acid. As previously posted on
this subject I had a clear solution of ferric nitrate in rather a lot of nitric acid still and was leaving outside indefinitely. Anyway, getting
impatient because I desperately needed some ferric nitrate no matter how polluted so to speak - I decided to add steel wool to this until no more
dissolved. As expected I got a very very thick Red brown solution. Was on the point of heating this up when I decided to experiment with the as is
solution on copper and various heat treatments etc (metal work purposes - not chemistry), I got some very unexpected artistic possibilities from the
various stages of painting the solution on the copper drying and heating with blow torch. Due to this I would like to know what could basically be in
this solution besides an acidic Iron hydroxide and iron nitrate mixed, (has an exact PH of 2). And can I realistically do anything more with this
"Gunge" that I now call it, in order perhaps to purify things a little further.
[Edited on 28-5-2012 by CHRIS25] |
Try adding some water to your iron nitrate. It might not all have dissolved. If you can still see chunks of Fe(OH)3 in your solution (actual chunks,
not just opaque, as an aqueous Fe3+ solution is partially opaque from hydrolysis), then filter with fine filtering paper. This should get rid of most
insolubles. This mix probably contains some Fe(II) nitrate, some Fe (III) nitrate, and some oxide/hydroxide.
As your purpose is metalworking, whether the compound is Fe(II) nitrate or Fe(III) nitrate or a mix of both shouldn't really matter, as they all
decompose to Fe2O3 when heated (the Fe(II) oxide gets aerobically oxidized), which gives it the artistic effect (I think, correct me if I'm wrong).
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CHRIS25
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Hi Nicodem and Welming, I don't think I will titrate, I might actually start all over and get what I originally had just to see what possibilities
there are. Welming, No I have no insolubles I filtered this earlier on before working with it and there were no insolubles then. I added water and
wee bit of H2O2 to make sure all was oxidized to complete the reaction that I saw, so yes you are right I probably have all those ingredients mixed
in.
[Edited on 29-5-2012 by CHRIS25]
Just an after thought: Would there be an advantage to using Rusted barbed wire (or rusty nails but barbed wire has more surface area) in place of
Iron, or Iron Filings? The rust is Iron Oxide and in the reaction with nitric acid I am sure that I read somewhere that rusty is preferable to clean,
(I think it was another science site dealing with making chemicals for patination) Anyway I collected some rusty barbed wire, I have some iron
filings, I have cast Iron (which did not really go well last time). Thanks guys for your tips.
In either case the stoichemetry would be 5.6g Iron and 126g acid(due to the fact that my acid is @ 30%) This would give theoretically 24.2g Fe(HNO3)3.
[Edited on 29-5-2012 by CHRIS25]
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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bfesser
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