| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
Erbium_Iodine_Carbon
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 6-8-2011
Location: ON, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Mystery Metal: ~21.25g/cm3
Hello all,
Tonight I was looking in my basement for some metal pieces for use as milling media in a ball mill I'm constructing. The guy who built our house was a
collector of odd things plus he worked at the nearby nuclear research lab so there are some strange things down there.
With that said, I came upon this very dense rod about 1cm in diameter and 10.65cm in length. Using a caliper the volume was determined to be 8.70cm3
and the mass found to be around 185g by my digital kitchen scale (my 0.01g scale only goes up to 100g) The rod is shiny with a slight golden tint.
Although the weight isn't accurate there are only a few elements in that density range, and the accuracy of the method was proven which I will explain
later.
I've tried immersing the rod in 3% hydrogen peroxide but no decomposition was observed. I figure this would rule out platinum (however nice that would
be).
Anyways, after showing this to my parents they mentioned something about a labelled tungsten rod that also came with the house so I had to investigate
that as well. It turns out the thing is huge, weighing just over 2kg! The color was very different of my other sample so that narrows down the
possibilities even more.
Using the same measurement method the density of the tungsten was found to be 19.13g/cm3 which is very close to the theoretical density of 19.3.
I'll attach pics of the 2 metals; apparently the tungsten was labelled and taped to a wooden rod at some point but the label has disappeared.
Basically my question is: what tests can I use to determine the unknown metal's composition?
 
|
|
|
Lambda-Eyde
National Hazard
Posts: 857
Registered: 20-11-2008
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cleaved
|
|
If that's rhenium (d=21,02), I'll have to kill you and steal it. Nothing personal, of course.  Unless your technique or calculations are wrong, it has to be either that or maybe Os or Ir. All of them are of course
hideously expensive.
This just in: 95,5 % of the world population lives outside the USA
You should really listen to ABBAPlease drop by our IRC channel: #sciencemadness @ irc.efnet.org
|
|
|
Rogeryermaw
National Hazard
Posts: 656
Registered: 18-8-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
is it possibly an alloy?
|
|
|
Erbium_Iodine_Carbon
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 6-8-2011
Location: ON, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have a chemistry exam tomorrow so I'll bring it in and afterwards weigh it accurately. It could very well be an alloy but probably of those platinum
group mentioned by Lambda-Eyde. If it were Pt-Ir would that account for it not decomposing the peroxide?
|
|
|
m1tanker78
National Hazard
Posts: 685
Registered: 5-1-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Assuming the rod is solid (not tubular)... If you tap it against a hard object, does it thunk, ping, ting, ring, spring??? H2O2 alone isn't a
good test; an acidic solution would give you a better idea if it dissolves/discolors or tints the solution a certain color.
I love a good whodunnit or a whatsit in this case. 
Tank
Chemical CURIOSITY KILLED THE CATalyst.
|
|
|
johansen
Harmless
Posts: 27
Registered: 25-6-2011
Location: United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
it is probably genuine 95% + tungsten.
i had the opportunity to buy a 100 pound block of 99% tungsten and i passed it up 
hang onto it, it is hard to find pure tungsten these days
|
|
|
Erbium_Iodine_Carbon
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 6-8-2011
Location: ON, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The thing is the other rod I have (the larger one) I know is tungsten and the smaller one looks nothing like it. Also the density is considerably
higher than that of tungsten.
I do feel very lucky to just find 2kg of tungsten though!
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Take it to a jeweler shop: many are equipped with portable XRF today.
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1375
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
What a find! It may turn to have been a very affordable house 
Apparently, tungsten dissolves in hydrogen peroxide at an appreciable rate:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac60176a021
Perhaps the reaction with only 3% H2O2 would be not so fast as to dissolve much, but you might see at least see something happening.
Although it is a fun project to try to identify the metal, it is probably worth getting a XRF analysis on it. Perhaps you can get someone to do a
quick measurement for you at a local metal scrapyard.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Erbium_Iodine_Carbon  | | I have a chemistry exam tomorrow so I'll bring it in and afterwards weigh it accurately. It could very well be an alloy but probably of those platinum
group mentioned by Lambda-Eyde. If it were Pt-Ir would that account for it not decomposing the peroxide? |
Dream on...
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination!
|
|
Given the very high density I suspect it is something like rhenium.
|
|
|
Eddygp
National Hazard
Posts: 858
Registered: 31-3-2012
Location: University of York, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organometallic
|
|
Yes, the rhenium-osmium-iridium are the (apparently) possible ones. However, it is quite strange to find 900$ worth of rhenium in your basement...
there may be bugs in gfind
[ˌɛdidʒiˈpiː] IPA pronunciation for my Username |
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Let him first determine density again. Then we'll talk...  My money's still on W.
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination!
|
|
Fair enough, but I think his method of measuring the density is pretty good and it is quite a bit too dense for tungsten, also it does not look like
tungsten.
The guy could have been a bit of a squirrel and just 'collected' it from the lab where he worked.
Not many houses come with a 2kg tungsten rod, so why not a rhenium rod as well?
If you want a small amount of pure tungsten it is used for fishing weights;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACE-Tungsten-Beads-SML-0-37g-3-5mm...
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks for the W tip. I've been religiously hording kaput incandescent bulbs for years. Must have about 100 g of W by now. Must crack them open some
day...
|
|
|
Erbium_Iodine_Carbon
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 6-8-2011
Location: ON, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Alright I've accurately weighed it and the density is just over 21.3g/cm3. That pretty well narrows it down to Ir, Os, or Pt since those are the only
elements with density greater than 21.0g/cm3. I don't think it's osmium (unless it's plated with something else) because of its color. Again in my
measurement I used a scale accurate to 0.01g and a caliper accurate to 0.01cm, so I don't see much room for error there.
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination!
|
|
I think the likeliest candidate must be platinum, it is the closest at 21.45.
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You'll have to chemically test it. Apparently Re can be dissolved in nitric acid:
http://www.espimetals.com/tech/rhenium.pdf
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
C'mon Squirrel: how desperate would one have to be to design a part in solid Pt??? And how would such a part manage to 'escape' from a factory??? No
one just finds huge lump of Pt in their basement, that's as sure as death and taxes, as far as I'm concerned... 
[Edited on 22-6-2012 by blogfast25]
|
|
|
plante1999
International Hazard
Posts: 1936
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as a hatter
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
C'mon Squirrel: how desperate would one have to be to design a part in solid Pt??? And how would such a part manage to 'escape' from a factory??? No
one just finds huge lump of Pt in their basement, that's as sure as death and taxes, as far as I'm concerned...
[Edited on 22-6-2012 by blogfast25] |
Good point, though I would recommend to dissolve a part of the metal In aqua regia, and add ammonium chloride to test for platinum I have other test
For PGM if you want.
[Edited on 22-6-2012 by plante1999]
[Edited on 22-6-2012 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3227
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Electrical resistivity of elements varies by purity/shape. If you have an ohm meter available it would be a quick and easy test to try and eliminate
some contestants or possibly give you more fodder to prove your point. I warn you however that there is some math involved since the resistivity
varies on shape as well.
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1375
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
Parts are made out of platinum all the time. Crucibles, filters, etc.
And some people find chunks of radium salts in their basement. Incidentally, ErIC, you should be carefull too, especially because you mention the guy
worked in a nuclear research lab and apparently also forgot about the fortune he left in the basement when he sold the house. Did the former owner die
or suffer from dementia or something?
The 'escape' part is suspicious though.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
bquirky
Hazard to Others
Posts: 316
Registered: 22-10-2008
Location: Perth Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
perhaps 'liberated' would fit better
|
|
|
thelonious
Harmless
Posts: 13
Registered: 1-5-2012
Location: Toronto
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you have any aqua regia available, you could try dissolving part of the sample in it, to determine whether or not it's platinum.
That being said, I would try less destructive measures of identification first
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination!
|
|
It would have been worth a lot less historically when demand for platinum was low. What else can it be?
If the density is correct then things like tungsten etc are ruled out.
I only half believe it myself but facts are facts.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
