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watson.fawkes
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The House I Live In, a documentary film by Eugene Jarecki
The House I Live In is a documentary film about the (USA) "war on drugs" by Eugene Jarecki. I saw a screening of it over the summer, but I'm
writing because it's just hitting theatrical release, which is limited, opening this weekend in New York City, next weekend in southern CA and DC,
others over the next couple of months. Here's the list of showtimes on the official website.
This is easily the best thing I've seen on the subject. Jarecki interviews people on all sides of this issue, not just the usual suspects, but also
including police officers, marshalls, judges, and prison administrators. And they all have nothing good to say about what's happening. In a pretty
astonishing coup, he's got interview footage from some of the same beat cops that were on the TV show Cops. The best thing, though, is the
interview footage with David Simon, best know for the TV show The Wire, but previously a police reporter for the newspaper The Baltimore
Sun. I could go on. If there's one thing that's wrong about it, it's that the scope of the film is so broad that it feels too short, but then I
have a much higher tolerance than most for dense and long documentaries.
Go see it if you can. It's unlikely that the folks that participate on this site will be disappointed.
Official Website www.thehouseilivein.org
Official Trailer #1 on YouTube
Its page on IMDB
Its page on Rotten Tomatoes
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watson.fawkes
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This movie has been picked up by the PBS documentary series Independent Lens. It's premiering there on Monday, April 8, 2013 (that is, next Monday).
PBS is widely available in the USA, so there's little excuse not to see it if you want to.
The House I Live In on PBS Independent Lens
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hissingnoise
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And the good news just keeps coming . . .
http://www.people-press.org/2013/04/04/majority-now-supports...
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learningChem
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The documentary could also have talked about the assholes in 'science' forums who like to rant about 'cooks'...
It was a more or less interesting depiction of the nazi system supported by a good deal of idiots who post in this forum.
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Bot0nist
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Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  | The documentary could also have talked about the assholes in 'science' forums who like to rant about 'cooks'...
It was a more or less interesting depiction of the nazi system supported by a good deal of idiots who post in this forum.
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Why derail watson's thread with this whining? There is pleanty of help for prospective "drug" chemists here, and as long as the discourse is not full
of retarded, non-scientific cook lingo and blatent lazyness. Check the Org chem subforum...
As far as supporters of facsism or nazi ideal. I only know of two members who feel this way, and their positions dont seem to effect the furum.
If you have such problems with SciMad, then why waste your time and ours whining and complianing. If you want to discuss forum issues or moderation in
an effective way, then start a thread in the furum matters subforum, instead o being childish and spamming peoples threads with off topic flaming and
bitching. Or just GTFO, or STFU. There are likely many forums online that will meet your obviously high standards...
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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Finnnicus
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Woah, Woah guys, back to science related matters. No need to be angered. (Unrustle your jimmies?)
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watson.fawkes
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The phrase of imprecation is "lazy cook". Please at least understand what the hatred here actually is. A cook who isn't lazy learns
some science, almost perforce, and that happens here all the time.
I am in favor of decriminalization of recreational drugs in general, though I am not in favor of a "free market" in them; the details of the line
between no restriction at all and illegality is not the point here. What is the point is that even in such a world (that is, even in one of a whole
class of such worlds), I would still curse lazy cooks for being a threat to amateur science.
Lazy cooks are in many ways the perfect capitalists. At every turn they seek to externalize their own costs onto others, exchanging harm to others for
personal profit. The three most obvious externalities are (1) harm to health over and above what the drug itself does, (2) contamination damage to
real estate, and (3) hazardous materials in the trash. In other words, these are laziness in synthetic purity, laziness in lab practice, laziness with
the waste disposal. Association with such toxic people is damaging to amateur science, regardless of the legality or illegality of the substance
manufactured.
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learningChem
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| Quote: | | The phrase of imprecation is "lazy cook". Please at least understand what the hatred here actually is. |
That doesn't sound too convincing to me.
Both alleged 'cooks' and non-cooks are routinely told to use the fucking search engine, are accused of wanting to be 'spoonfed' etc. The problem here
seems to be lazy 'mentors' who don't want to 'spoonfeed' people, rather than lazy newbies. (I assume that one of the purposes of this forum is to help
newbies. If people don't want to, that's fine. Whinning about newbies on the other hand, doesn't seem...right)
And of course there's a double standard. While newbies who are good sheep and supposedly obey 'the law' are tolerated, people who allegedly don't obey
'the law'are 'hated' (your own word)
| Quote: | | I am in favor of decriminalization of recreational drugs in general, though I am not in favor of a "free market" in them; |
That hardly makes sense. You either stop violating people's rights and stop enforcing a criminal system (prohibition) and arbitrary 'regulations', or
not.
You either have a 'free market' (that is, stop violating people's rights) or not.
If 'drugs' are 'decriminalized' then people can produce and take whatever they want, i. e. a free market. If you don't want a free market, then don't
say that you favor 'decriminalization' (because you actually don't)
| Quote: | | the details of the line between no restriction at all and illegality is not the point here. |
It isn't? Your position isn't very meaningful unless you clearly define that line.
| Quote: | | Lazy cooks are in many ways the perfect capitalists. |
Cooks operate in a black market, not in a free market, so, no they are not capitalists.
| Quote: | | At every turn they seek to externalize their own costs onto others, exchanging harm to others for personal profit. |
Looks like you don't know what capitalism is. It is a system based on private property and free enterprise (free enterprise == you pay for your
mistakes)
Now, people who harm other people are NOT respecting private property so they can't be capitalists.
You're also partially wrong about cooks 'externalizing their costs'. Some may do that (like people who are considered 'upstanding citizens' and are
not cooks do...) while others simply don't (that is, they produce pure stuff and dispose of their trash properly).
| Quote: | | Association with such toxic people is damaging to amateur science |
Baseless ranting.
[Edited on 12-4-2013 by learningChem]
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learningChem
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By the way,
I was told to shut the fuck up by botonist, but when I told him to shut the fuck up, my post was censored/deleted.
Pa the tic.
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AndersHoveland
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I do not believe that criminalization of physical objects is an appropriate way for society to deal with its problems. At least not when it comes to
chemistry... perhaps I am a bit biased. 
[Edited on 13-4-2013 by AndersHoveland]
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watson.fawkes
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In the gradation of my negative opinions about people, there are people I
disagree with, people I think are completely wrong-headed, and people that are so clueless that talking to them is completely worthless to me. You are
in the third category.
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Finnnicus
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Ah stop arguing, it's not even constructive!
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12AX7
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Looked up the movie. Absolutely amazing.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | Ah stop arguing, it's not even constructive! |
Do we have any smug, mellow, non-argumentative members from the "Legal States"?
Sheeesh! If I were one, I'd be smug as fuck!
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elementcollector1
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | | Quote: | | Ah stop arguing, it's not even constructive! |
Do we have any smug, mellow, non-argumentative members from the "Legal States"?
Sheeesh! If I were one, I'd be smug as fuck!
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Let's see:
From a "Legal State": Washington is one of two to legalize marijuana.
Smug: I have no idea, though I'd like to think not.
Mellow: Absolutely not.
Non-argumentative: Hahaha no.
Hmm, that's 1 or 2 out of 4. Close enough.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
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learningChem
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> people that are so clueless that talking to them is completely worthless to me. You are in the third category.
Yes sonny. After showing that you don't know the ABC of political theory, all you can do is resort to name calling =) Lovely.
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BromicAcid
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No arguments on the internet are ever constructive. When it comes to arguing on the internet, no one really cares what anyone else says, they just
hope that everyone cares about what they say.
[Edited on 4/13/2013 by BromicAcid]
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watson.fawkes
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Thanks for watching it, which was the whole point of my original
posts. It truly is amazing.
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Finnnicus
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Well, one could argue the point.... 
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madscientist
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| Quote: Originally posted by learningChem | The documentary could also have talked about the assholes in 'science' forums who like to rant about 'cooks'...
It was a more or less interesting depiction of the nazi system supported by a good deal of idiots who post in this forum.
|
Polverone and I started this forum and neither of us has ever supported the "War on Drugs" in any capacity. Discussion of the topic is limited more as
a matter of scope and taste. Though I do agree with watson.fawkes that most cooks are lazy and irresponsible, poisoning themselves, their friends or
customers, and the environment.
If drugs were legal there would be no incentive to cook at home. Who would make meth and risk burning to death or ingesting toxins when the same
material could be purchased for less at the local pharmacy?
[Edited on 14-4-2013 by madscientist]
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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violet sin
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that was an interesting movie. not the normal genre for me but well done. after watching, its kinda hard to believe any one would have a chance of
talking their way out of criminal charges(for hobby chem lab) if intruded on by cops. seeing 'em swarm houses for drugs( and some times by accident!
) in the film. they were out to get anything and everything that was stumbled upon while trying to do one initial bust. so having a shithead
neighbor and a love of science could suck for you.
all the more reason to be smart when not even doing anything wrong.
on a non chemistry related side, the movie was good at showing a more humanized representation of whats going on. not just the crazy black and white
often misleading info we heard growing up. thanks for posting the links to it watson.f , finding it free to watch on the pbs page
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hissingnoise
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OK! This is pretty old ─ but it's still funny . . .
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watson.fawkes
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| Quote: Originally posted by madscientist | | Though I do agree with watson.fawkes that most cooks are lazy and irresponsible, poisoning themselves, their friends or customers, and the
environment. |
To be precise, I did not claim that most cooks are lazy, merely that there are lots of lazy
cooks. I've got no particular evidence that most cooks are lazy, and while anecdotal evidence might indicate that, there's also an observation bias in
that the incidents where lazy cooks create disasters, such as infants with neurotoxic damage from moving into a former cook house, are subject to
attention while ones that keep it clean would be noticed at much lower rates. And I have had no personal contact with this world, so I cannot add
anything there, though it's clear that others can. | Quote: Originally posted by madscientist | | If drugs were legal there would be no incentive to cook at home. Who would make meth and risk burning to death or ingesting toxins when the same
material could be purchased for less at the local pharmacy? |
You've made a number of
presumptions here about the nature of a decriminalized world. I'll immediately stipulate that the scenario here is plausible, but I cannot bring
myself to assume that's the way things will work. Why only at the pharmacy and why not at the liquor store, for example?
There's actually a rather large hazard here for amateur science, which is that recreational drug manufacture could be legal per se yet
captured by commercial interests, who would promote regulations that favor large players over small. Small-scale synthesis could easily become de
facto illegal because of requirements for zoning, waste tracking, purity testing, impurity characterization, dose consistency, and whatnot. This
isn't idle speculation; this is what regularly happens when large commercial concerns take political action in the name of safety to squash their
smaller competitors. A readily-available example is the dairy industry in the USA.
The larger point I'd like to stress is that the amateur science world is not prepared for success with a decriminalization agenda. Prohibition laws
are not the only target. There's a whole world after knocking over those laws to consider. There will be some sort of regulation, period. The USA
government has a department named after alcohol and tobacco; claiming that recreational drugs won't fall under that rubric is evidence of naivety
enough to ignore anybody so foolish. The structure of that sequel regulation can either favor amateur science or hinder it, and I've seen little
discussion about how to achieve a beneficial outcome.
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learningChem
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| Quote: | | Polverone and I started this forum and neither of us has ever supported the "War on Drugs" in any capacity. |
And yet it seems to me that this forum complies pretty well with american government dictates, if not fully in print, at least in spirit.
Yes, there are a few people speaking out against the so called war on drugs, but the majority either support it, or don't give a damn about it (that
is they tacitly support it).
| Quote: | | I do agree with watson.fawkes that most cooks are lazy and irresponsible, poisoning themselves, their friends or customers, and the environment.
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Bullshit. And I see that 'fawkes' is still ranting about 'drugs'...while pretending that he'd support 'decriminalization'
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learningChem
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Here
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=18434&...
40% of the vote supports outright fascism while the majority of the rest seems to be comfortable with the current level of 'polite' fascism.
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