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shannon dove
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Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper  | Depending on the concentration you need, you can also seal two beakers in a plastic bag, one with distilled water and the other with ammonia solution.
Eventually they will equalize in ammonia concentration, one pure and the other with the suds in it. Keep in mind that the end result will be of a
little less than half of the original concentration.
This works for pretty much all aqueous dissolved gas solutions like HCl, formaldehyde, methylamine, etc.
[Edited on 8-10-2012 by DougTheMapper] |
What about setting a third container in there with calcium oxide in it. Would that bring the concentration up?
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S.C. Wack
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The water container might work better with some sulfuric or phosphoric acid added to it. Or HCl, with a wide glass tube connecting the HCl to a wide
container of crap ammonia.
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shannon dove
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| Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack | | The water container might work better with some sulfuric or phosphoric acid added to it. Or HCl, with a wide glass tube connecting the HCl to a wide
container of crap ammonia. |
I thought the idea was to make an ammonia -water solution, not an ammonium salt.
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S.C. Wack
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Sure is! That's why I've put y'all on the most practical route to it! (without distilling it). There's only one practical way to make these soapy
and/or weak ammonias useful.
[Edited on 6-1-2013 by S.C. Wack]
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elementcollector1
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Can you distill an ammonium solution?
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S.C. Wack
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Why not? Don't expect anything but water to come over...unless you add NaOH first...
[Edited on 6-1-2013 by S.C. Wack]
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elementcollector1
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So, will distillation remove water, leaving the starting solution more concentrated?
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S.C. Wack
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If the salt is one of a strong acid...it will fail with weak acids.
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shannon dove
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Oh, I see, make an ammonium salt, boil the water away, then react the dry salt with a strong alkali like sodium hydroxide (dry) then use this
anhydrous ammonia gas to mix with your very own clean water to whatever concentration you want.
Is that the idea?
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S.C. Wack
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In this case it would be preferable to separate the soap and ammonia (in whatever form) at the same time like I said but 2nd choice would be isolating
the salt from the soap by partial evaporation and recrystallization because you might find fragrance or etc weirdness from distilling the soap with
caustic.
PS The problem is that although distilling concentrated ammonia solutions works great for getting ammonia out, it really sucks for weak solutions,
unless you only want weak solutions.
[Edited on 6-1-2013 by S.C. Wack]
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elementcollector1
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Sounds like a better plan than mine. How 'bout ammonium chloride?
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S.C. Wack
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Vapor phase reaction at STP with HCl would be best, if it works with these dilute solutions and the salt condenses. Unless you want ammonia now.
If you neutralize (not to pH 7) grocery store ammonia with HCl, you're going to be boiling off a lot of water, and you have to really boil off a lot
of water to get enough ammonium salt to be worthwhile. Soaps start precipitating at a point. Although that could be a pure one-day stovetop adventure,
I'd look into battery acid and vapor.
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elementcollector1
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So, in other words, boil both ammonia and HCl into a flask, and let the reaction sort itself out. At the end, there should be a deposit of ammonium
chloride (hydrate? Anhydrous?)
Do you think concentrated sulfuric acid would work better in solution, as the sulfuric will steal water from the ammonia?
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