platedish29
Hazard to Self
Posts: 76
Registered: 2-9-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: absorbing CO2
|
|
Metal-metal solvation
Hello everybuddy!
Recently I bought some Mg scrap parts and pretend to cast a sparking stone out of it. As one should know, magnesium alone is quite safe to handle and
won't ignite on fire. A manufacter described his firestarter block as contaning rare earth metals, Cu, Zn and Fe.
Maybe the so said rare earth are simply some mischmetal dissolved in molten Mg?
So the question is, does alloying metals dissolve in one another in the same fashion salt dissolves in water, i.e. dissolution starts at different
phase mixture?
Because My blowtorch is a simple propane-air torch which at best effortfully metlz copper.
Mg melting point is just 650°C...
|
|
|
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
Nope. The block itself is 95% Mg, while the striker is the mixture of RE's, Fe, etc.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
violet sin
International Hazard
Posts: 1475
Registered: 2-9-2012
Location: Daydreaming of uraninite...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good
|
|
thats what I thought also, mg block and separate striker, but some of the more recent strikers are just a thick rod that carves much more easily than
standard ferrocerium 'flints'. got one in a test sample from a hunting club and is also much more silver magnesium looking. the manufacturer said
that it was a magnesium fire starter. I think mayhaps platedish29 is right. this one is different but same idea.
http://www.campingsurvival.com/aufistflstan.html
"...has magnesium built in..."
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
Magnesium alone doesn't alloy with iron (indeed, molten magnesium is usually handled in iron ladles and crucibles), but it does with rare earths
(cerium, lanthanum, etc.), reacting to form intermetallic compounds. Iron reacts similarly with rare earths. Probably, an even mixture of all three
results in a weak, brittle mixture of intermetallics without immiscible phases.
So, as far as mixing mischmetal with magnesium, it at least seems possible. Ought to spark hotter?
Tim
|
|
|
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
I don't really see *why* they'd alloy magnesium with the RE's, as those are the principal component of the mischmetal that allows it to spark so
readily. But who knows?
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
platedish29
Hazard to Self
Posts: 76
Registered: 2-9-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: absorbing CO2
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  | | I don't really see *why* they'd alloy magnesium with the RE's, as those are the principal component of the mischmetal that allows it to spark so
readily. But who knows? |
And isn't it logicall at all? For sure the purposes are on making cursed structural parts as at one touches with a cigarete or match or even the most
innocent spark, to cause a tremendous runaway metallic fire, melting everything at a temperature ranging around 2500°C.
*JK.*
Unofortunately guess there will be necessary some of those iron crucibles 12AX7 has mentioned about and apply coal fire around it.
|
|
|
UnintentionalChaos
International Hazard
Posts: 1454
Registered: 9-12-2006
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline
Mood: Nucleophilic
|
|
The "softer" striker rods contain far less of the hardeners in traditional ferrocerium "flints." They contain less alloying elements (iron) are are
closer to pure mischmetal. I have a few of these rods (for fire starting purposes)
If you've ever desired to beat someone to death with a chunk of rare earths, I reccomend this: http://goinggear.com/survival/fire/firesteel-ferro-rod-blank...
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
|
|
|
platedish29
Hazard to Self
Posts: 76
Registered: 2-9-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: absorbing CO2
|
|
Proceding with the experimentals is a next-month plan. But theres no reason to hide our opinions yet!
Yes the hardener is said to be iron oxide, I don't think pure iron would remain that hard with all the soft RE in the of flint.
Thus on dissolving Fe2O3 would sink in molten magnesium (which is a progress since worries about surface tension and oxide layer completely halting
the solvation process are now eliminated).
Btw, I'm about to receive a hundred flint stone this month the remaining problem being to to buy charcoal.
My crucible is in fact a medical grade stainless steel cup.
I hope shit does not immediately go bad, as for the molten magnesium burning non stop because mischmetal added on.
|
|
|
kristofvagyok
National Hazard
Posts: 659
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Melting magnesium in a steel crucible with a propane torch doesn't look as idea for a long life... If you won't do this under argon or anything what
will protect the Mg from air it will ignite or it will oxidize.
Long ago I have made a few samples of wood's alloy for demonstration. The Cd, Sn, Pb and Bi was melted in a steel eradicable under some paraffin wax.
On the bunsen the paraffin melted and ignited, but it prevented the alloy from the oxidation. When the sensitivity was demonstrated, then the paraffin
was removed and I have melted it on the air. It oxidized in no time. And it wasn't 650 Celsius hot....
So think this project again, melting Mg could turn out to be a really bad joke.
I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:
"You can’t become a chemist and expect to live forever." |
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
Mg is usually melted under inert cover: molten salts (which double as a flux), N2 (cheap), Ar (why bother when N2 will work?!) or, surprisingly, SO2
(often sourced from a hunk of elemental sulfur tossed on the melt). I might be forgetting something, but I know CO2 works about as well as air, so
that ain't it.
Most Mg alloys are rich with aluminum which also helps things. I've made magnalium (50% MgAl) in air with no flux or cover before. If you get it
slightly too hot, it does start corroding into a black rumpled brainy mess.
Tim
[Edited on 10-18-2012 by 12AX7]
|
|
|
platedish29
Hazard to Self
Posts: 76
Registered: 2-9-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: absorbing CO2
|
|
Holy #$%
The most recent density measure picked up showed a density of 2,74g/cm³ for the "magnesium" I had bought a local car junkyard, with 1g dev. on weight
and 2mL dev. on volume, as calculated from 74g divided by 27mL.
This is so fuckin hilarious. Guess I'll have to bring my balance and graduated cilinder to the guy and so we can talk.
Do you guys think there is any test for at least 50% magnesium? To say, something that works with magnesium only.
[Edited on 18-10-2012 by platedish29]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
