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Author: Subject: Life after detonation
XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 4-12-2016 at 07:35


Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Interesting story as I had to make more HMTD for my caps, here for some reason drying any thing is a tedious proposition at best and was tempted to vacuum filter it on my fritted funnel.

But When I did the risk analysis first thing on the list was just that! getting it off the frit was just way to high risk a venture, and too much containment in the funnel made it more like a grenade then a filter method. So scratched the idea and here it is 3 days later still drying on the open coffe filter!

Going to be making a temperature gradiated vacuum desiccator for these things to make it berable

Worst case scenario must always be kept in mind...

Glass shrapnells cut and pierce flesh...hard plastic too...just like metal or wood...in close viccinity

So better think to safer soft plastic beakers...in the case of a bad event...consequences will be less.

With peroxydes, the worst is always to be feared so tiny quantities is a must...
Special care to this since with the cheap price of inital ingredients, one often puts 50-100ml easily into reaction and gets finally 50-200g of final product...what is totally irresponsible (I speak from experience with CTAP although I had no bad event, I was uncomfortable with the amount of crystals it produced)...

[Edited on 16-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]


Growing up in a remote logging camp you learn fast that if you do not think you die (Same for panic, you panic you die, every one should say this to them selfs morning and night, you can panic after wards but befor it will be the end of you), I find my self even running risk analysis when just making coffee, it truly is a mind set of thinking.

If I do this, how can it go wrong, and when it does what injuries could I receive, can it cause fire or vapor, so on.

It has saved me allot of times int he energetic's end of it, you get impatient and want to rush some thing then that little subroutine slams the breaks on and waves that Darwin award in front of you screaming "NOMINATED!"

Then you step back and realize had ya don it you'd be cleaned up with a sponge or what have you. As a kid saved a few people back in school too who would be missing some hands. All ways check your fuses for dusting of primary powder! Can't do its job when the flame has a short cut!

As for plastic at those forces glass / plastic is the same, the only safe thing is very care full and diligent procedure and distance and never work when you're tired or low blood sugar.

All my EM work is don in the noon after my after lunch nap! Fully awake alert and fed, that alone lowers risk hugely.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 4-12-2016 at 11:27


Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Interesting story as I had to make more HMTD for my caps, here for some reason drying any thing is a tedious proposition at best and was tempted to vacuum filter it on my fritted funnel.

But When I did the risk analysis first thing on the list was just that! getting it off the frit was just way to high risk a venture, and too much containment in the funnel made it more like a grenade then a filter method. So scratched the idea and here it is 3 days later still drying on the open coffe filter!

Going to be making a temperature gradiated vacuum desiccator for these things to make it berable

Worst case scenario must always be kept in mind...

Glass shrapnells cut and pierce flesh...hard plastic too...just like metal or wood...in close viccinity

So better think to safer soft plastic beakers...in the case of a bad event...consequences will be less.

With peroxydes, the worst is always to be feared so tiny quantities is a must...
Special care to this since with the cheap price of inital ingredients, one often puts 50-100ml easily into reaction and gets finally 50-200g of final product...what is totally irresponsible (I speak from experience with CTAP although I had no bad event, I was uncomfortable with the amount of crystals it produced)...

[Edited on 16-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]


Growing up in a remote logging camp you learn fast that if you do not think you die (Same for panic, you panic you die, every one should say this to them selfs morning and night, you can panic after wards but befor it will be the end of you), I find my self even running risk analysis when just making coffee, it truly is a mind set of thinking.

If I do this, how can it go wrong, and when it does what injuries could I receive, can it cause fire or vapor, so on.

It has saved me allot of times int he energetic's end of it, you get impatient and want to rush some thing then that little subroutine slams the breaks on and waves that Darwin award in front of you screaming "NOMINATED!"

Then you step back and realize had ya don it you'd be cleaned up with a sponge or what have you. As a kid saved a few people back in school too who would be missing some hands. All ways check your fuses for dusting of primary powder! Can't do its job when the flame has a short cut!

As for plastic at those forces glass / plastic is the same, the only safe thing is very care full and diligent procedure and distance and never work when you're tired or low blood sugar.

All my EM work is don in the noon after my after lunch nap! Fully awake alert and fed, that alone lowers risk hugely.

Nice way of living but stil when awake and fed peroxydes are an evil snake.

--> Soft plastic doesn't make schrapnells with cutting edges...because the molecules stretches/melt with the pressure and heat (much faster than glass or iron steel would)...also the density is less so the relative volume is bigger what means that surface is bigger also --> what slows down the flying piece much faster into air than glass or steel would.

Think twice ;):):D
-->why "non killing weapons" used by cops against strikers use rubber bullets?




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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wayne_m
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[*] posted on 2-7-2017 at 12:24


Great stories here.

Hopefully, mine will be relevant enough, even if it didn't result in permanent injury.

Even non-energetic materials (Energy absorbing, even?) can be pretty dangerous.
When I was much younger, and had no idea what I was doing, I put about 1/4 pound of dry ice in a 2-liter bottle. (Trying to store it, I think.) This was back in early days, when they still had those glued-on bases because the bottles were round-bottomed. The shape and thickness of the early bottles made them pretty strong; enough so that I got to observe liquid CO2, and watch it boil as I put my hand against the plastic.
About an hour after I capped it, I had it at the school, in the hallways of concrete floors, brick walls, and stuccoed overheads, when the inevitable happened.
In my case, the white-out was a cloud of vapor that obscured vision (I think) but the world disappeared into a low buzzing noise that faded into a ringing that lasted a couple of days.
The front of my coat was coated in ice, and I had some bruises on my hand. My guardian angel was working overtime that day: I had been holding it by the neck, and not by the side, and it was down by my side while I was looking the other way.

My hearing is still excellent, although I seem to be bothered by noises that other people don't find all that bad. I don't know whether that is caused by that incident, or whether I just got lucky enough not to have any permanent damage.

Since it was purely an expansion bomb, with no significant blast front, my eardrums and other bits survived relatively unscathed. Since it was heat-absorbing, I was not burned. Since it was PET and not glass, my jeans stopped the fragmentation with only minimal bruising.

But even thirty years later, I remember every moment in great detail - from the ice crystals formed on the buttons of my coat (even the writing stamped into those buttons!) to the teacher who stepped out of the classroom (chemistry lab, of course!) and asked - presumably - whether I was all right. I say presumably because I couldn't hear her. Or anything else.

A friend of mine was sitting in his mother's place of employment a quarter mile away, in a city with buildings between us, and I was on the far side of the building which channeled the sound away from him. Her place of employment was an auto shop, where mechanics use impact wrenches and other noisy tools, so the offices are moderately well sound proofed. He heard the boom.

To this day, any time I am around any kind of energetic materials, that is the first thing that pops into my mind. Call it PTSD or whatever, but if I don't see failsafes like secondary containment, static grounding, ventilation, pressure reliefs, interrupts, or any of the myriad other disaster-proofing schemes people have invented to protect us from ourselves, I will run - not walk - away from any involvement.

I still like a good loud bang, now and then, but only when I'm expecting it!

But even so, some things that don't seem to be so energetic can bite you when you least expect it. I once filled a paper cup with butane and lit it off, trying to make an amusing little pop (after having stashed the can at a safe distance, of course,) and it popped, sure enough, but some residual flame was still dancing around, and starting to set the paper on fire.
Sure enough... I did exactly what Yamato71 did. Thankfully, the vast majority of the butane was expended in the pop, and I only burned off my eyebrows when I blew on the flame.
Even as much experience as I had gained with flammable gases and even more energetic materials didn't give me any intuition for how much energy would be left in the tiny bit of residual gas in the cup.

I only hope and pray that my next mistake (and there will be one) is as minor as these were.
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theAngryLittleBunny
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[*] posted on 2-7-2017 at 15:52


This was one of the most terrifying things I've ever read. It reminds my of an accident I had about 2 months ago, it's really minir compared to this, it wasn't even with energetics, but I still can relate with this. So, I just wanted to make some adipic acid. I did this in my school lab, where we oxidized cyclohexanone with potadsium permanganate. But I had to evapourate a lot of water afterwards. So I just thought I'll just make it 4 times as concentrated. And since I just fidn't have a beaker at hand, I used a plastic bottle. So I dissolved 50 ml of cyclohexanone in 500 ml if water, and added the sochiometric amount (about 150g) of KMnO4, and a gram of NaOH to it. Then I did a really stupid thing, I closed the bottle and shook it. First, there really wasn't anything happening, but it got a little warm after a while, and I got really excited about that. Not too long after that, it became quite hot and pressure was building up. I wanted to cool it in a water bath and open it, biut it exploded right in my hands, and hot and concentrated KMnO4 solution was sprayed all over my body. I was completely soaked and I could smell the cyclohexanone. The walls were completely brown from MnO2. And right after that, you just need some time to realize what just happen. I had thoughts like "Did this just really happen, this can only be a nightmare". I took off my cloths, run ib the shower, and there I saw that the skin on my bally was damaged quite badly. I saw the purple water flowing off my body into the drain. When I was somewhat clean, I got out of the shower, and I have to say, MnO2 gives your skin a really lovely brown shade. Anyway, I just dumped all the sodium bisulfite I had into a bucket, filled it with water and tried to clean everything. The SO2 smell was pretty horrific. I also threw some sodium sulfite into a bathtube to dissolve it in the water and take a bath in it, so all the MNO2 goes off. There I noticed my skin burning. It was a really terrifying experience, I can recall the moment the bottle exploded, and thinking about it makes be shudder >_<. The smell of cyclohexanone will always remind me of this accident. Luckly, I got away with no injuries besides a few wounds on my belly.

Ans I stopped with energetics some time ago, because many little accidents just made me more and more paranoid about them.
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