guy
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H2SO3 to H2SO4
I don't think this topic has been discussed before. I think it might be good information.
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I read that sulfurous acid can be oxidized to sulfuric acid by using hydrogen peroxide. I found this site on google.
http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/redox/faq/h2o2-h2s-so2.shtml
I think this is a good make sulfuric acid because it looks real easy to do, and since both of these chemicals are easier to obtain/make.
And will this be a good way to transform nitrous acid to nitric acid?
~~~~~~~~~~`
H2O2 will probably yield the least contaminated acid, but I only have 3% H2O2 so I was wondering if other oxidizers will work.
[Edited on 10-7-2004 by guy]
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darkflame89
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Chlorine gas works too..though you will get a mixture of hydrochloric acid and sulphuric acid.
Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
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BromicAcid
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Yeah, but if you supply more SO2 to the mix as the SO2 is used up, and more Cl2 is pumped in as well, the H2SO4 concentration will rise to the point
where it takes up the existing water forcing the HCl out of the solution leaving fairly pure H2SO4, any HCl impurity could be boiled out.
Also | Quote: | I also saw a reaction over at physicsforums that thunderfvck mentioned:
3H2SO3 --@150C--> 2H2SO4 + S + H2O
It was just interesting in that I had never saw it before.
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As I've mentioned before something involving oxidation with chlorate might be interesting in that the Cl2 generated would serve to oxidize
another molecule of sulfurous acid. However you would have to deal with the cations floating around in there, unless barium chlorate was used, then
the BaSO4 could be easily filtered out.
H2O2 would be an easy way to go though. Provided you have an easy SO2 source and H2O2 it would be a snap to test to see how well it works. I'd
be easy to see if it worked, SO2 would be dissolved in water H2O2 added and the mixture heated for awhile at a stable heat, then further heat would be
applied, if you can get the residue to 150 C+ then you know you have H2SO4 (unless there was solid sulfur floating around in there initially) since
sulfurous acid just lets the water boil away and the SO2 goes with it, and the H2O2 would be gone by then, so the liquid would have a high probability
of being H2SO4.
As for oxidation of nitrous acid, I'm not sure about that....
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TheBear
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I have a substance (a bleaching agent) which I hope is a useful SO2 source. I'm suspecting it's Na2S2O4 (sodiumdithionite), at least thats
what my search on the internet made me believe. (The bottle of bleaching agent is old and it's contents isn't specified).
On addition of H2O2 the salt generated H2S (this is about the only thing I can say for sure  )
On addition of KMnO4 (aq) a cloud of sharp smelling gas was generated. Could this be SO2?
If I making sense, I could try to make an SO2 gas generator, by dripping KMnO4(aq) on Na2S2O4 and lead the gas generated into H2O2.
By the way, I can't figure out the redox's here, could anyone please enlighten me? (Yes I've searched for hours)
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shadeT
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I just found a bottle of sulforous acid ( w= 5-6% ) and i have some H2O2 too so i could try this out .
I was thinkink about making a mixture of the H2O2 and H2SO3 and placeing it in an oil bath at 150 C degrees as you said ...
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guy
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Sodium dithionite is a powerful reducing agent.
S<sub>2</sub>O<sub>4</sub><sup>-2</sup> ---> SO<sub>3</sub><sup>-2</sup> +1.12 volts
in alkaline solution
The oxidizing agents you used probably oxidized the sulfite ion to SO2.
Na<sub>2</sub>S<sub>2</sub>O<sub>4</sub> + MnO<sub>4</sub><sup>-</sup> --->
SO<sub>2</sub> + Na<sup>+</sup> + Mn<sup>+2</sup>
This seems like a good way to make SO2.
Where can I get some sodium dithionite?
[Edited on 28-7-2004 by guy]
[Edited on 28-7-2004 by guy]
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guy
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I want to create SO2 from burning sulfur from sulfur dust (from anti fungal stuff), but does it have flame retardant?
I found this quote in another thread
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found some Grant's Sulfur Dust. It's used as an anti-fungal agent. For what ever reason I was under the impression that sulfur burned by
itself. But I guess I was wrong. It just seems to melt when I hit it with an open flame. Mabey the other 8% in the Sulfur Dust is flame retardant.
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[Edited on 29-7-2004 by guy]
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thunderfvck
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guy, not sure on this one, but couldn't you simply heat the sulfur in some glassware until it combines with oxygen to form SO2? Then you could
lead the gas to the blah blah, you know what to do.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the purity, I mean, you're trying to make SO2...all the other stuff *may* not vaporise/react with the S,
so, only the sulfur will form the SO2 and yeah!
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budullewraagh
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H2O2 is an excellent oxidizing agent. it's also very simple to make it concentrated. just freeze it and you'll have a bit of the H2O2
liquid left because it freezes at -11 celcius whereas H2O freezes at 0 celcius.
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chemoleo
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Your picture in the signature
Coud you please drastically reduce the size of your picture, or remove it entirely (which is preferred)? If everyone starts doing this (and this is
otherwise a precedent you set), then soon every thread will consist of hundreds of pictures, and a bit of text inbetween. Surely that can't be
desired for anyone.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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budullewraagh
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eh, soz
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guy
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I know about that method of freezing it. Its just that I have a really old refridgerator and I dont know how to control the temperature.
It has freezer settings from A - E. (E = coldest).
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thunderfvck
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When I've tried freezing 3% H2O2, I would get one big block of ice. I always boiled off some water from the 3% to 1/10 of its volume to get ~
30%.
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Marvin
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budullewraagh,
Its not that simple, in the same way it isnt possible to seperate alcohol and water by simply distilling.
The liquid that freezes first will contain a lot more water than peroxide though, so the liquid left will be richer in peroxide. By repeated
freezing/seperating/thawings you can concentrate it up to a point (specifically the 62% peroxide/water freezing eutectic). As the system gets close
to the eutectic (say>40%) the freezing method becomes rapidly less efficiant.
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guy
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| Quote: |
I always boiled off some water from the 3% to 1/10 of its volume to get ~ 30%
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By boiling do you mean gently heat it because wont hight heat cause decomposition?
And how long must you heat it and what temp?
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TheBear
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Woho! I've finally managed to make myself some (5-10 ml) of ~95% H2SO4. I produced it using the SO2 + H2O2 route. All I've
got to do now is to enhance my apparatures for bigger batches. The SO2 was greated by simply burning S in a flask (with air being pumped in).
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guy
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What was your source of sulfur (dusting sulfur?)
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TheBear
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Directly translated it's "sublimed sulfur". Hope it helps.
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vulture
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Isn't this a rather costly method? You might want to consider constructing an appartus like axehandle, because a catalytic reactor is going to be
cheaper in the long run than huge amounts of H2O2.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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TheBear
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It's a very costly method. Especially when you consider the fact that most of my acid/H2O2 splashed out due to uneven air stream
(I'll invest in an electric air pump soon). Needless to say: my apparatures is in great need of enhancement. However: My goal is to make a
catalytic reactor one day, I thought this would be a nice step in the right direction.
I'm still waiting for axehandle to start his sulfuric-acid-DIY-mania once again.
[Edited on 27-8-2004 by TheBear]
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Democritus of Abdera
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and if Vandium Pentoxide sounds daunting as a catalyst, worry not.
In 1831 Peregrine Phillips, a bristol vinegar manufacturer, patented a sulfuric acid process significantly divergent from the lead-chamber process.
It avoided the gradual poisoning of of the catalyst by purifying the SO2 prior to dissolving in water.
His process was not renedered economically feasible until it was shown in 1852 that far cheaper catalysts, notably iron oxide, would facilitate the
reaction 2SO2 + O2 --> SO3.
The resulting sulfur trioxide can be dissolved into pure water but dissolution into dilute sulfuric acid is far easier.
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.\"--- Marcel Marceau
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Hermes_Trismegistus
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JEEZ!
Verbose or what!
Democritus, you pompus ass, why don'tcha just admit you have no fricking clue what you're talking about eh!
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
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chemoleo
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Hermes aka Democritus - you being one and the same person, you are going to develop a split personality if you keep going like that. So stick to one,
or the other, but not both - despite what 'the other' is telling you!
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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