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Author: Subject: Preparation of cyanides
cyanureeves
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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 18:18


i think i will have to agree with entropy 51. i dont know about vacuum distilation and we dont even really know if max had a pro helping him behind the scenes. i am not afraid of potassium cyanide but hcn is another monster,all your questions are legit but so are all the replies you are getting. i will eventually proceed just like i know you all will but gentlemen this is freaking auschwitz shit,so patience. cold ethanol will precipitate the salt,i have seen it and done it.it settles at the bottom as a gel that can be dried with a dessicant.
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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 18:44


Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
.And pls do not judge that all are 5th grade failed.
I see no evidence to the contrary.


Well,After reading more about HCN I am almost set in my mind that I will not attempt this.It might endanger others as well.But I would like to know the exact considerations of properties of chemicals involved and precautions to be taken if at all one attempts this.

Thanks for your timely response.




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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 19:05


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

...Would you think that vacuum distiller is a safe stuff to use ?


What gave you the idea that a vacuum was needed? This would just add another risk factor to an already risky situation. Have you ever heard of a glassware implosion?

Firstly we talk about doing this in a kitchen for gawd sake. Then we throw in fractional distillation and vacuum distillation. And you wonder why people are saying that you aren't qualified to be doing this.

What do you need KCN for anyway? Surely you don't need it for chemistry. I haven't seen any evidence that you know any. Are you making this just for the adrenaline and diarrhea that goes with it?




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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 19:23


Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves  
i think i will have to agree with entropy 51. i dont know about vacuum distilation and we dont even really know if max had a pro helping him behind the scenes. i am not afraid of potassium cyanide but hcn is another monster,all your questions are legit but so are all the replies you are getting. i will eventually proceed just like i know you all will but gentlemen this is freaking auschwitz shit,so patience. cold ethanol will precipitate the salt,i have seen it and done it.it settles at the bottom as a gel that can be dried with a dessicant.


1.By vacuum distillation apparatus , I just was making sure that the gas wont leak out to the air , not the need of a vacuum for the whole thing.
2.The temp control is of at most importance as well.I will not attempt something like this without practicing to regulate the temp at least a 50 times
3.HCN is highly inflammable.Just in the middle if you lose your heart , I have no clue what to do .Would you know how to tackle that situation ?
4.And I would like to know how stable is this HCN in KOH.
5.What are the proportions of masses used ?The video proportion is too dangerous for a me to have.If I try I would need the least possible proportions.Any idea ?
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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 19:27


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

...Would you think that vacuum distiller is a safe stuff to use ?


What gave you the idea that a vacuum was needed? This would just add another risk factor to an already risky situation. Have you ever heard of a glassware implosion?

Firstly we talk about doing this in a kitchen for gawd sake. Then we throw in fractional distillation and vacuum distillation. And you wonder why people are saying that you aren't qualified to be doing this.

What do you need KCN for anyway? Surely you don't need it for chemistry. I haven't seen any evidence that you know any. Are you making this just for the adrenaline and diarrhea that goes with it?


If you could answer to the questions I posed that would be great.I am interested in anything challenging.This is one of them.Anyway as I told , I am not so starving for death.And I got enough sense that I cant do this at home.

And now , if possible , come to the point.Thanks




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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 19:34


What gave you the idea that a vacuum was needed?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did not have an idea vaccuum was needed.Without pumping out air from it , it will not serve as vacuum distiller.But using such an apparatus will make sure that gas will not leak out(of course , if that is properly handled during the process)




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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 19:38


Or in other words , if any expert here could explain each and every aspect of this process , that would be most beneficial to all who read ( so that illiterates can avoid asking dumb questions)
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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 19:52


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Or in other words , if any expert here could explain each and every aspect of this process , that would be most beneficial to all who read ( so that illiterates can avoid asking dumb questions)
Any reasonably competent amateur chemist could read this thread and have a fairly good idea how to proceed.

The nature of your questions suggests that you may be lacking in one of these two proficiencies.

Anyone who needs to be spoonfed about making cyanide should not attempt to make cyanide.
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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 20:11


Gawd ! Is Knowledge too heavy that it occupies the whole head and can't convey it in a way it deserves.I was reading the whole thread and I can sense the danger of risks involved.

Can you pls answer : Being an expert , if you would do Max's method ( I read his posts about his proportions , HCN leaking and unable to store it properly and so on ) how exactly would you do ?




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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 20:39


http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=23&...

Ok.I got my answers.




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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 20:40


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Gawd ! Is Knowledge too heavy that it occupies the whole head and can't convey it in a way it deserves.I was reading the whole thread and I can sense the danger of risks involved.

Can you pls answer : Being an expert , if you would do Max's method ( I read his posts about his proportions , HCN leaking and unable to store it properly and so on ) how exactly would you do ?
More than a few members find it a little odd when a new member's first post is an enquiry regarding cyanide. This is evident if you read the posts. You joined a week ago and have 18 posts, all related to cyanide. As I said, some of us find it a little odd.
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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 21:54


Emotions aside we are just trying to prevent you from accidentally killing yourself, your friends, and/or your family.

When you say you don't know the fundamentals of an acid-base reaction, ie, HCN-KOH, then I know you have little to no chemistry training. That is not a good place to be when attempting to make cyanide.

Would you pull a man off the street and ask him to do an appendectomy on you based on some written instructions that you just handed him?





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[*] posted on 1-3-2012 at 23:58


Also, I want to mention that Max (myfanwy94) actually killed himself with phosgene. I guess it was just plain luck that it didn't happen earlier with the cyanide.



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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 04:10


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Emotions aside we are just trying to prevent you from accidentally killing yourself, your friends, and/or your family.

When you say you don't know the fundamentals of an acid-base reaction, ie, HCN-KOH, then I know you have little to no chemistry training. That is not a good place to be when attempting to make cyanide.

Would you pull a man off the street and ask him to do an appendectomy on you based on some written instructions that you just handed him?



I understand that and appreciate it.You develop interest in certain things when you come to know that it appears almost impossible to you for the first time.And that is the reason I am all into this cyanide thing.Just to clarify the other kind of interest is to climb Kilimanjaro.Well , just to tell you there ppl are of different choices and risks wont stop them.I think I made all my efforts to convey you that I am not trying to kill myself after making cyanide if at all any of you felt so ...Then I dont have to do anything ,but just let the HCN leak and I stand there , why should I need KCN at all ?

I would read more on acid-base reaction.Thanks for your input on that..[If you believe it or not , I had 99% marks in chemistry in graduation.Just that ,its not my profession that I lost the touch.But when I read more now , it does not look like French to me and it appears more exciting that it used to when I was a student]




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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 04:24


The acid and base reaction ,to the limit I know,is driven by the valence of ions.Philosophically , any system try to reach a state of least entropy.

HCN + KOH - > H2O + KCN.

But I am not really sure how stable is this solution.For instance I do not have any clarity at what temp this can again start release HCN.And if this is exothermic in nature .If not this , the reverse will be exothermic ? Its those details I wish to know.




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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 04:32


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

I understand that and appreciate it.You develop interest in certain things when you come to know that it appears almost impossible to you for the first time.And that is the reason I am all into this cyanide thing.Just to clarify the other kind of interest is to climb Kilimanjaro.

If you have recently developed an interest in chemistry, then start off with something that's less likely to kill you or people/animals in your vicinity - cyanide scores pretty high in that regard. There are a lot of interesting things to do in chemistry - making cyanide is one of them, but it is not a beginner's experiment you do for fun.

Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Well , just to tell you there ppl are of different choices and risks wont stop them.

If the risks won't stop you, then I don't think chemistry is a suitable hobby for you.

Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

I think I made all my efforts to convey you that I am not trying to kill myself after making cyanide if at all any of you felt so ...Then I dont have to do anything ,but just let the HCN leak and I stand there , why should I need KCN at all ?

The problem is that you don't have to try to kill yourself with cyanide. If you're not prepared for the dangers then it will kill you. As others have said, if you don't even know the basics of acid-base chemistry it's a very good indicator that you shouldn't take this beyond the theoretical level.

Also, for all we know, you aren't going to kill yourself... I'm sure you understand we are skeptical against new members who are obsessed with cyanides.




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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 04:41


Oh God ! Its tiring.I would let the experts talk on dangers involved , instead of talking something about :
Stability of KCN solution.

And if someone has the kindness to convey the how to practically deal with of KCN solution before it is precipitated using cold ethanol, I would read that.




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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 05:11


Quote: Originally posted by Lambda-Eyde  
Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

I understand that and appreciate it.You develop interest in certain things when you come to know that it appears almost impossible to you for the first time.And that is the reason I am all into this cyanide thing.Just to clarify the other kind of interest is to climb Kilimanjaro.

If you have recently developed an interest in chemistry, then start off with something that's less likely to kill you or people/animals in your vicinity - cyanide scores pretty high in that regard. There are a lot of interesting things to do in chemistry - making cyanide is one of them, but it is not a beginner's experiment you do for fun.

Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Well , just to tell you there ppl are of different choices and risks wont stop them.

If the risks won't stop you, then I don't think chemistry is a suitable hobby for you.

Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

I think I made all my efforts to convey you that I am not trying to kill myself after making cyanide if at all any of you felt so ...Then I dont have to do anything ,but just let the HCN leak and I stand there , why should I need KCN at all ?

The problem is that you don't have to try to kill yourself with cyanide. If you're not prepared for the dangers then it will kill you. As others have said, if you don't even know the basics of acid-base chemistry it's a very good indicator that you shouldn't take this beyond the theoretical level.

Also, for all we know, you aren't going to kill yourself... I'm sure you understand we are skeptical against new members who are obsessed with cyanides.



Yes I understand the skepticism involved and even I was when I read a few posts asking where to get the apparatus and so on.

And I am sure that I am not going to try this coz though I am willing to take the risk , it might cause harm to others as well.So ethically I lose the right to do so , until I am confident that I can do this neatly.





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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 05:36


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

Yes I understand the skepticism involved and even I was when I read a few posts asking where to get the apparatus and so on.

And I am sure that I am not going to try this coz though I am willing to take the risk , it might cause harm to others as well.So ethically I lose the right to do so , until I am confident that I can do this neatly.


Even though I am a noob, I find your statements lacking logic. You say you are not willing to take the risk until you are confident enough to conduct the experiment in a safe way. How exactly do you plan to become confident? Just by reading a lot on the experiment? Pure theoretical knowledge?

The guys over here are of the view that one should work on less hazardous experiments, gain experience and then move on to the one in question.

I'd say it's better you stop questioning the experts/ oldies of the forum and just listen for a while. Else you are never going to get an answer. At least go through all the posts on this thread and I'm sure you will get the necessary info.

PS: I have all the reagents and apparatus needed for this experiment lying next to me but have no plans to carry out the reaction in an appreciable scale until I'm done with some experiments given in woelen's website http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/index.html
By the way, I have 2 years of practical knowledge in chemistry.

Peace.

[Edited on 2-3-2012 by madmanhere]
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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 05:42


Quote: Originally posted by madmanhere  
Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

Yes I understand the skepticism involved and even I was when I read a few posts asking where to get the apparatus and so on.

And I am sure that I am not going to try this coz though I am willing to take the risk , it might cause harm to others as well.So ethically I lose the right to do so , until I am confident that I can do this neatly.


Even though I am a noob, I find your statements lacking logic. You say you are not willing to take the risk until you are confident enough to conduct the experiment in a safe way. How exactly do you plan to become confident? Just by reading a lot on the experiment? Pure theoretical knowledge?

The guys over here are of the view that one should work on less hazardous experiments, gain experience and then move on to the one in question.

I'd say it's better you stop questioning the experts/ oldies of the forum and just listen for a while. Else you are never going to get an answer. At least go through all the posts on this thread and I'm sure you will get the necessary info.

PS: I have all the reagents and apparatus needed for this experiment lying next to me but have no plans to carry out the reaction in an appreciable scale until I'm done with some experiments given in woelen's website http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/index.html
By the way, I have 2 years of practical knowledge in chemistry.

Peace.



[Edited on 2-3-2012 by expInfi]




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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 05:48


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Quote: Originally posted by madmanhere  
Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  

Yes I understand the skepticism involved and even I was when I read a few posts asking where to get the apparatus and so on.

And I am sure that I am not going to try this coz though I am willing to take the risk , it might cause harm to others as well.So ethically I lose the right to do so , until I am confident that I can do this neatly.


Even though I am a noob, I find your statements lacking logic. You say you are not willing to take the risk until you are confident enough to conduct the experiment in a safe way. How exactly do you plan to become confident? Just by reading a lot on the experiment? Pure theoretical knowledge?

The guys over here are of the view that one should work on less hazardous experiments, gain experience and then move on to the one in question.

I'd say it's better you stop questioning the experts/ oldies of the forum and just listen for a while. Else you are never going to get an answer. At least go through all the posts on this thread and I'm sure you will get the necessary info.

PS: I have all the reagents and apparatus needed for this experiment lying next to me but have no plans to carry out the reaction in an appreciable scale until I'm done with some experiments given in woelen's website http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/index.html
By the way, I have 2 years of practical knowledge in chemistry.

Peace.

[Edited on 2-3-2012 by madmanhere]



And what on earth made you think that I am going to do this now ????Am I writing in French or what ?

Or is it that I cant ask about stability of KCN solution at OR Do I need to go and make some posts in a less hazardous threads that I can get an answer ! Jeez !




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[*] posted on 2-3-2012 at 06:08


Ok.Let me listen to the ppl here.I would just try to prepare some harmless things first.And would read more here.My over enthusiasm is shaken.No quick root to get knowledge :(



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[*] posted on 3-3-2012 at 12:48


Can someone explain equations of reactions upon the addition of ethanol into KCN solution ?I read in a previous post that it is benzoin condensation.But that needs a CHO group(isn't it ?) and ethanol is an alchahol.



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[*] posted on 3-3-2012 at 17:32


Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Can someone explain equations of reactions upon the addition of ethanol into KCN solution ?I read in a previous post that it is benzoin condensation.But that needs a CHO group(isn't it ?) and ethanol is an alchahol.
No equations needed. Just look up the solubility data.

Post a link to where you read that it was a benzoin condensation, why don't you?
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[*] posted on 3-3-2012 at 19:02


Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by expInfi  
Can someone explain equations of reactions upon the addition of ethanol into KCN solution ?I read in a previous post that it is benzoin condensation.But that needs a CHO group(isn't it ?) and ethanol is an alchahol.
No equations needed. Just look up the solubility data.

Post a link to where you read that it was a benzoin condensation, why don't you?


Sorry.I read : Cyanide that was prepared by fusing ferro+C+Pot.Carbonate mixture, used for benzoin condensation and it gave a good yield of benzoin.Thats what it was when I referred back to.
I will look up the solubility data.
[If you could provide a suitable link , that would be great ]

[Edited on 4-3-2012 by expInfi]




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