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Author: Subject: Looking over the border: EU-Regulations
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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 06:25


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Cultural "common sense" as taught by political correctness is the only thing on EARTH that will NEVER be regulated.

A better, new improved utopianism brought about by scientism is real progress....isn't it grand....and applying all that enlightenment to eating utensils.... voila ...we are all made into more "civilized" diners...but who really even needs a spork for the genuine menu of "progress" that is one giant size universal shit sandwich?


[Edited on 4/25/2018 by Rosco Bodine]


That fork pic is funny.

I do agree that political correctness goes a bit too far.... but surely it is better if it goes too far rather than not far enough? A bit too far and all get are a few disgruntled right wing bigots.... not far enough and we are back too (or still there as we haven't stamped it out yet) blatant racism and hurting of people who have no choice over how they are just because of peoples prejudices. You might not think it matters... but it matters to the people being hurt.





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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 06:48


Traditional common sense that is ACTUAL common sense is not "bigotry" ....but that is the mindfuck illusion that has been the brainwashing applied to people to have them "reeducated" to discard what was good sense they had before and substitute the "new improved common sense" that doesn't correct any faulty information that was valued before....but brainwashes acceptance of the currently trending, PC endorsed and directorate approved "Big Lie" that of course serves the dystopianist agenda.

To "guilt trip" people about their non-existent "bigotry" is simply another psychological leverage technique used to persuade people to "revise" and "fix" what was not broken about correct ideas they valued before.

The dystopianist agenda can be recognized easily enough because a forefeiture of individual LIBERTY and/or individual wealth is always a MARKER for what the nanny state / police state is doing and always claiming that such sacrifices for the individual are justified for the "greater good".

The abject general SILLINESS of the "pathological altruism" of psychotic "socialism" is ALWAYS THERE as another marker. It soon becomes ridiculous what is the level of micromanagement inflicted on people's lives by the "thought police" who are proponents and constitutents of a dystopianist madness counted incorrectly for "progress". Group think replaces free thought, and society becomes a hive mind populated by drones, all of them "government issue" like clones from a clone factory.
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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 08:12




Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Traditional common sense that is ACTUAL common sense is not "bigotry" .


Quite. Obviously.

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
To "guilt trip" people about their non-existent "bigotry" is simply another psychological leverage technique used to persuade people to "revise" and "fix" what was not broken about correct ideas they valued before.
.



It depends on why you are feeling the guilt. I had this when I was younger.... I was quite racist. I believed things about black people that were not true. Was this common sense? no. Was it because I am a racist arse? no. Was it because I had been bought up and taught by my father that blacks did this or that and acted like a or b? Partly. This mass stereotyping, although accurate in SOME cases, is clearly not appropriate to class all people of black skin. Same with homosexuals.... what business is it of mine what anyone else wants to do in their spare time with their bodies? The hatred I had for them was learnt behaviour - behaviour that I became ashamed off and left behind many years ago - I was a Christian back then and I still value the act of repenting from ones sins..... although my definition of some sins have changed.

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  

The dystopianist agenda can be recognized easily enough because a forefeiture of individual LIBERTY and/or individual wealth is always a MARKER for what the nanny state / police state is doing and always claiming that such sacrifices for the individual are justified for the "greater good".

The abject general SILLINESS of the "pathological altruism" of psychotic "socialism" is ALWAYS THERE......


You are definitely loosing me here though... 'Common Sense' would suggest a mixture of liberty and safety, capitalism and socialism designed around whatever is modern at the time. What worked 1500 years ago and was lauded as genius might be seen as barbaric and out of dater now. Looking after the sick and poor is a BASIC part of the Christian belief system - If I was still a Christian I would be ashamed at how many right wing Christians in the USA and indeed other countries champion the removal of the social safety net for the less fortunate. It disgusts me and is, in part, proof that they are not connected to this loving god they spout is so kind. If it were true we would all just get on with the loving and caring and being full of the holy ghost instead of the fighting and bitching about those less fortunate receiving what they haven't earned. Jesus paid all the workers the same rate for the day - those that were late, those that sat about and those that worked hard - take it up with him if you don't like it.




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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 14:11


Liberty was more highly valued by my ancestors than safety, and I share their "dated" and traditional values as tested and proven correct. I do not value the "new normal" for so many "modernized and revised" things which I reject on the merits for the already well proven Orwellian nonsense so much of it is. The various iterations of the "ministry of truth" have utterly failed to impress me other than to be a target of ridicule and amusement. Much of the worlds "journalism" and institutions of "higher learning" have become "group think collectives" for communal navel gazing.

What goes on for a day does not need sustainability. However what goes on for a long period of time does need to be practical and over a period of time what works and what doesn't work can be identified on its merits.

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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 14:24


All 'Safety' is an illusion.



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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 14:50


The "security services" of The State are the gravest threat to Liberty we face.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_de_Molinari

https://mises.org/library/production-security-0
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[*] posted on 27-4-2018 at 15:26


It's very easy to look at the state as our enemy, the omnipresent father figure ready to spank us for bad behavior. But a far more frightening intrusion of your rights and freedoms would happen without the legal structure of the state giving us clear common standards of behavior and effective enforcement mechanisms.

Besides, the state (in democracies) is ultimately just a reflection of us as a society. It's weird and sometimes flaky and confused because that's what we are. If you don't like what the government is, start campaigning.
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[*] posted on 30-4-2018 at 05:32


The present devolution of society towards dystopian atheist (Marxist) politically correct secular "ideology" marketed as modern and advanced "enlightenment" is NOTHING NEW. It is a historical repetition of ERROR that is a manifestation of NIHILISM. Even what the halfwits who are the proponents of such decadence regard as humorous is only twisted and evil. It requires having some intellect in the first place to even have an intelligent sense of humor, and what is popular as humor today is pathological, sick, and as mentally twisted as are the people amused. Nobody having good sense is laughing at contemporary "comedians".

The very same dishonesty, corruption, and violence, and all the same perversions, diseases, mental aberrations, societal, and familial dysfunctions, and lack of individual character and absent aspirations for better, are ALL conspicuous evidences that have absolute parallels and historical precedent in accounts of failed societies and destroyed empires that have ALL been collapsed in self destruction by such decadence that only perverted and moronic heathens would count as virtue. But such absolute MORONS are the first to "virtue signal" because that is simply one more expression and self identification of their absolutely profound CLUELESSNESS.
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[*] posted on 30-4-2018 at 12:05


@Rosco: Don't start again with your whining about evil political correctness. If I see one more such post, then I'll ban you again for some period of time. I am totally done with this :mad: :mad: :mad:



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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 05:59


@woelen

What I am posting about is absolutely on topic as a societal and legal issue affecting amateur science.

And what I have described observing as a general trend and huge issue affecting amateur science is a factual and verifiable observation.

There is no OCDD (oppositional compulsive / defiance disorder) psychopathology afflicting me, if that is what you mean by "this".

A righteous indignation causes the disdain (and contempt) I have for the strangling and suffocation of "amateur" chemistry by STATE REGULATORS / "license" and "permit" peddling TAX COLLECTORS who are de facto CHEMISTRY PROHIBITIONISTS. Amateur science is being incrementally taxed and regulated to death as a calculated and deliberate destruction of an individual liberty that is a hobby for many millions of people.

Even if a "majority" of people find that tyranny "acceptable" because they have no personal loss or inconvenience caused by the "safety regulations", many other people who are good citizens are being literally criminalized and having their liberty trampled because of no wrong they have done to anyone, but are being treated as "guilty by association" with persons who are criminals and terrorists.....who should not have been present in society in the first place due to their identifiable pathological and dangerous ideology that is inconsistent with ordinary liberty in what are more advanced and free societies.

The fools errand of trying to "assimilate" followers of an alien, repressive, and violent culture into free western societies is the ERROR needing regulation and "risk management" ...NOT the banning of every material or implement that can be diverted to criminal use by cut throat criminal psychopaths whose presence is the obvious actual problem. The nature of the actual security risk is being misconstrued to avoid "offending" a particular "class" of persons who ARE the danger inherently because of the dangerous ideology they OWN.

Science is being sacrificed on the altar of "social engineering" done by a Nanny State. Simultaneously the real criminals are being accorded special status as a "protected class" and the bargain is one of DHIMMITUDE for those who have lost liberty in that corrupt bargain inflicted on an entire population by a corrupt state.

The "risk management" and "security related" sale restrictions that are continually increasing to "ban chemicals" are attributable to a faulty premise that "society" can be "child proofed" (or idiot proofed) and "safety" can be achieved by an imposition of "regulations" on raw materials of ordinary commerce that can be weaponized by criminals and terrorists.

There is no JUSTICE in compelling free men to forfeit their own liberty in order to accommodate ALIENS criminal tendencies to do murder by misuse of ordinary materials. The ordinary materials are NOT the source of DANGER ....but the ALIENS who have the criminal tendencies are the RISK requiring "risk management".

My analysis on this is correct. Clearly you don't like it....and hey I don't like it either ...but still, my observation and analysis is correct. The Orwellian aspect of the present devolution of society into a thought policed dystopia is also correctly identified, and was predicted not only by Orwell but by many others who have recognized the same "progress" of "civilization" where candor has been steadily suffocated by "thought police" and speaking the truth has become a revolutionary act.
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 06:08


Its sad, but true.
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 07:22


@Rosco: You certainly have a point, and I agree with quite a lot of what you have written in the last post, but what irks me is the agressive tone of the post and the blunt generalization of a whole group of people, which you now call ALIEN.

If you communicate in a friendlier way and clearly distinguish between real terrorists and many other people from other cultures who may not have your ideology or religion, but who are perfect citizens, then things already sound very differently.

I fully agree with you that regulation of all kinds of materials, because of fear of terrorism, is not the way to go. You see it happen now. Less abuse of chemicals for nefarious purposes, but now they use vans or trucks, and in the near future they wil lfind something else which can be used to kill people. We indeed should try to minimize the presence of terrorists, but keep in mind that demonizing a whole group of people or demonizing a complete religion is not what helps. The effect may even be opposite, due to perceived (or real) hatred.




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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 07:45


Overly diplomatic and sugar coated euphemisms is a "Newspeak" semantics mind game that is involved with thought control meant for achieving behavioral modification. The PC euphemisms that seem or sound more diplomatic don't change the substance of what is being said, but is said differently to tiptoe around the conditioned "feelings" of people practiced at taking offense about something trivial every day.

Once a person has "adapted" to use of all the many Newspeak euphemisms, they are already brainwashed into acceptance of the inherent deceptions that would prevent candor. As a convert to that "enlightenment" then they become volunteer "enforcers" and vectors for the same infectious thought control that has already worked its magic on the converted PC proselyte.

For example the entirely proper term alien has been used for ages...it is proper terminology in legal and common usage and is not a slur of any kind. So are terms like deaf, mute, blind, crippled, retarded .....yet a list of "Newspeak" words that are doubleplusgood euphemisms (see Orwell) have been invented as a PC mind game used to "guilt trip" plain speaking people to achieve "mind control" over them by incorrectly identifying such terms as "insensitive" or "bigoted" ect. 100% Orwellian nonsense is exactly what that Newspeak is.
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 07:51


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  

Once a person has "adapted" to use of all the many Newspeak euphemisms, they are already brainwashed into acceptance of the inherent deceptions that would prevent candor. As a convert to that "enlightenment" then they become volunteer "enforcers" and vectors for the same infectious thought control that has already worked its magic on the converted PC proselyte.


Really? Even Orwell knew better. Try substituting "foreigner" or "primitive" (or "doubleplusbadnonfriend")for "alien" and tell me that what you have written is any less offensive or persuasive. This board is used by people all over the world; it is both crass and tactless to speak against aliens here.




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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 07:57


If I go across the border into Canada as I have done a few times....I am an alien there.

If a Canadian crosses the border into the U.S. that Canadian is an alien here.

Neither should take offense at that unless they have some mental problem.

Orwell was a Democratic Socialist. What an irony that would be the case since it would seem to be the "trendy" government model that has many admirers here on this board.

Orwell had a sense of proportion sufficient to recognize the absurdity of things taken to a hyperbolic extreme ....and Orwell gave a good bill of particulars about that extreme that would be a dystopia. It is ironic how the things Orwell so accurately described is not recognized as prophetic by others who are of the same general political persuasion as Orwell.

[Edited on 5/2/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 09:04


I agree with woelen. I don't demonize entire groups of people or religions. There are always exceptions. But as to the subject of this thread I agree that you can not idiot proof a society by banning potential weapons at the cost of freedoms for the law abiding. They will just use something else.
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 09:17


At a risk of further sidetracking the discussion with non-chemical EU policy, I would like to ask a question. I haven't read this whole thread through, but I read that acetone was on a "toxic list" or something, and was thus regulated. I understand that solvents like toluene and xylene can cause brain and nerve damage with chronic exposure. I know that some halogenated solvents (chloroform, dichloromethane,etc) have their own toxic effects, and some are moderately carcinogenic. But acetone never struck me as being so toxic. Is it as bad as the solvents mentioned above, from a health perspective? Is it considered dangerous because its flammable?

Or is it just being regulated because it is a precursor to drugs or explosives?

Edit:Thanks for the replies! Just finished searching the thread for "acetone," and reading a lot of it. I found
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=23...
and
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=23...

It's probably regulated because it has some utility for making drugs/explosives. Shoulda searched before posting. In any case, these laws now in effect are ridiculous. I doubt they are really cutting into drugs/terror that much (this is the part that might be non-chemistry related discussion). I don't even think they are fixing a pollution problem: most of the e.g. arsenic pollution comes from large companies which will just get a license. So in my opinion this legislation's main effect will be to make things harder for amateur scientists, and anyone else who wants to do things themselves which require chemicals

I would assume they also "watch" other purchases, too. Like if you buy a suspicious amount (hundreds of grams) of sodium bicarbonate, or worse, precursors/equipment for making the illegal stuff, (say, KCl, or a big graphite electrode that could turn it into KClO3) then they probably take note, and either try to find out how you use it, or use the purchase as evidence if something else happens. Even the United States' DEA has a list of "watched," but legal chemicals. I can only imagine the extent of this in other places.

[Edited on 2-5-2018 by Vomaturge]

[Edited on 2-5-2018 by Vomaturge]
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 09:38


I think it is mostly because it is used in drug manufacture. In Romania it is listed as a drug precursor.
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[*] posted on 2-5-2018 at 11:06


Acetone is a main precursor in making explosives.



The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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[*] posted on 3-5-2018 at 17:29


Anybody recall a scifi movie called The Mutant Chronicles starring Ron Perlman?

An alien invasion occurred and Earth was conquered by an army of mutants who were created by the aliens from reanimated dead humans that were genetically mutated and mentally reprogrammed to be zombified killers of normal humans. All the newly dead humans would be added to the "reanimation / mutation" manufacturing process that continued producing more and more mutant zombie soldiers.

There could be some food for thought conveyed by that movie.

[Edited on 5/4/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 6-5-2018 at 06:20


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  

Once a person has "adapted" to use of all the many Newspeak euphemisms, they are already brainwashed into acceptance of the inherent deceptions that would prevent candor. As a convert to that "enlightenment" then they become volunteer "enforcers" and vectors for the same infectious thought control that has already worked its magic on the converted PC proselyte.


Really? Even Orwell knew better. Try substituting "foreigner" or "primitive" (or "doubleplusbadnonfriend")for "alien" and tell me that what you have written is any less offensive or persuasive. This board is used by people all over the world; it is both crass and tactless to speak against aliens here.


There have been MANY very eloquent historians and leaders whose wise counsel and CORRECT counsel, has simply been ignored by their ostensible "intellectual betters", concerning this matter of danger to liberty, and danger to life and limb, and danger to what is genuinely and HONESTLY by many conclusive evidences a more advanced ideology of Western civilization, more advanced by ANY criteria anyone may wish to measure "advanced civilization" Art, Science, Music, Agriculture, Industry, Engineering, Human Rights,...ect. Churchill, Gladstone and others have EXPLICITLY stated TRUTH in an unvarnished form that has conclusively proven to be reliable and confirmed correct information.

Tact, Respect, Diplomacy are things that certainly have their usefulness for persons trying to be polite. However, an honest analysis and reporting of world history that is a continuum of events that very much includes the present time is NOT something that ought to be deferential and biased by "sensitivity" and "political correctness" so that a "sanitized" and propagandized version of history is a work of FICTION that obscures reality.

History has its bad actors, its butchers, and slavers, its abusers of individual rights and human rights, that have appeared as one form or another of tyrannical murderous oppression, and that would include reigns of terror by violent MOBS acting out "democracy".

Indeed there are very different societies and religions and cultures in different NATIONS around the world, and some of those societies and cultures are absolutely SUPERIOR to others in various ways that would include the extent of individual liberty for the citizens of those nations. Citizens of different nations are in FACT different and are ALIENS when they are present in a different nation from what is their home country. For some societies where the differences are small, the extent of "alienation" is negligible ...but it is still there. For other societies, where the differences are profound and extreme, the "alienation" is likewise EXTREME to the degree that the traveler might as well be from another planet.

That REALITY presents an insurmountable difficulty for "globalists" who are attempting to mix oil and water and use "political correctness" as the liberty destroying emulsifier that will miraculously enable mutually exclusive ideologies to coexist in the same space and in the same nation. That FAILED agenda of globalist utopianists devalues life and decreases liberty for everyone, attempting to accomplish an impossible dream that is a utopianist delusion and fantasy.

Laws and regulations can never make "safe" the world from the effect of mutually exclusive ideologies, where one of those ideologies is hell bent determined to by brute and cruel force impose its despotic domination on another to the destruction of individual liberty. There are many millions of THOROUGHLY WELL ARMED FREE MEN in the world who absolutely reject and refuse that proposition of tyrannical oppression and absolutely will forcibly resist any attempt at such domination. Individual Liberty preexisted ALL GOVERNMENT that would incrementally destroy that freedom until every human is reduced to being a cog in some utopianist wet dream of a "socially just" collectivist shangrila "machine". No FREE MAN is ever going to "submit" to being any part of that dystopianist "borg collective" where Earth has all of its nations and cultures homogenized in a "social justice" blender run by "world government" that would disarm its drone subjects and force upon them the unacceptable "coexistence" of mutually exclusive ideologies that "good global citizens" would be compelled by force to accept.

There was another scifi series called "V" that may be instructive.

Free Men, those millions of Human Beings who value individual liberty as a heritage that is their birthright are NEVER going to be "blissed" into any acceptance of a forfeiture of their right of self defense against ALL CHALLENGERS who may want to explore the FULL POTENTIAL of putting that resolve about retention of individual liberty to the test. There are men who would prefer death to enslavement, and have already decided that matter as an elemental life or death principle. There is a lion who will not be made anyone's pet lap dog but will make a shredded toy and/or meal of any who try that cute trick.









[Edited on 5/6/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 6-5-2018 at 09:30


All challengers? Traffic lights included? :P

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[*] posted on 7-5-2018 at 03:43


Hmmm......

Wright-Brothers-Smart-people-Crazy-people-Dumb-people.jpg - 81kB

wright_brothersDAD.jpg - 231kB



Albert-Einstein-quotes-Genius1.bmp - 354kB

[Edited on 5/7/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 7-5-2018 at 09:37


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Acetone is a main precursor in making explosives.


They will have to ban egg shells and vinegar if they want to do anything about it.

This is the problem with a society that is chemically illiterate, they believe that peace is just banning one material away. People dont know you make make an explosive device out of almost anything. Politics dont care either because they are in the business of making people feel good.




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Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
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[*] posted on 8-5-2018 at 05:22


The problem responsible for onerous chemical regulations is NOT "chemophobia".

The onerous regulations are "security measures" (meaning security of THE STATE, and NOT security of THE PEOPLE)

The imperative for such security measures is well established historically as a SIGNATURE "security measure" of TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT which insists upon having a MONOPOLY on VIOLENCE as an expression of POWER to dominate and control its subjects who are made defenseless, and of necessity then must place reliance upon the same tyrannical government for any personal protection and personal security.

When the individual subject / citizen encounters any violation of their personal security or any trampling of their LIBERTY by a CRIMINAL, the only EFFECTIVE recourse for the subject who has been made defenseless is to summon help from a "state authorized enforcer" who may or may not then intervene to "serve and protect" that subject.

The obvious priority for such a "scheme of government" is that the "security" of the "state authorized enforcer" is higher valued than is the security of the subject "citizen" who is EXPENDABLE as the "cost of doing business" continually paid by a tyrannical society that has DEVALUED its subject / citizens.



No One Rules.bmp - 930kB

[Edited on 5/8/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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