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Author: Subject: Endanger of being shut down?
matjaz
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smile.gif posted on 9-8-2004 at 00:22
Backup and disperse


I'd say a distributed news-like system is a good idea. Although, we may be running out of time.
The admins here could perhaps copy their backups and send them to a number of seasoned members...? This can be done immediately, much faster than what it takes to build a new messaging system.
Bookburning makes me sad as hell. :(



[Edited on 9-8-2004 by matjaz]
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souleh
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 04:22


How about, in the meantime (while such a system is being created, which may take some time as you say) we sort a small NNTP network ? I can host a server on my colo servers, and perhaps any user with an 'always-on' connection of reasonable speed (1mbit DSL?) could also host servers, and link together.

I could write a custom NNTP client that automatically signs posts and provides a PGP signature, then verifies received posts to ensure they are valid. This could filter out unwelcome usenet traffic. Also with such a custom client, the style + design could be such that it looks like a website forum rather than the usual plain usenet client interface.

No.. not a clone of rec.pyro et al, more a private NNTP system separate to the general news network.

Just more thoughts; I'd hate for us to leave this sort of idea until it's too late, and the last of our decent sites are shutdown. The beauty of doing something like this is that right now we still have centralised userbases.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 08:49
don't bother they'll regroup


could be possible the domain expired, cause no one cared or paid...that's what i believe...
i was active in the E&W forum, and monitored it since beginning of 2001. I think the forum will come up again. Perhaps in another form, but it will be back.
For myself i found it disgusting, that the forum had more than 10.000 members.
The golden time was when we had 500-600 members.

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peterthesmart
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 09:16
Domain Expired


The domain isn't expired, if it was, then you would just get a 404 page. The DNS can still be resolved. Therefore, the domain is still registered and possibly accessable by the owner. If you do a whois on the domain, you'll notice the entry expires in March of next year.
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souleh
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 11:07


I've done some more looking into NNTP servers, and think perhaps a passworded NNTP network would be a viable option; users would have to request access or have their accounts transferred over from an existing site such as this or roguesci, and new members would be carefully vetted.

That way it'd be fairly secure, easy to mirror and distribute content around a variety of servers; one goes down, the rest take over and you simply connect to a new address.

Any thoughts ?
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mrcfitzgerald
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 11:31
Roguesci is back


Roguesci is back. It seems a company named iDefense had pressured the provider to suspend the site. Now, however, it appears megalomania has managed to get his site up again. The new site will include such tidbits as chemical weapon data: "There must now be a penalty applied to iDefense. There remains in my possession a considerable amount of knowledge concerning the synthesis of explosives and chemical weapons ... I will no longer horde any of my chemical weapons information," as well as "additional outlets of discussion so we can draw an even greater audience ... [even if they] happen to be Arabic." For further information go to Roguesci!
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vulture
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 11:46


Megalomania has declared a war onto the culprits that shut down the site.

http://www.roguesci.org/index.html

Seems like the iDefense pals are supreme scaremongerers:

http://vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=65&page=1

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by vulture]




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 11:51


Quote:
Originally posted by mrcfitzgerald
Roguesci is back...


I checked the url www.roguesci.org, butt all I get is the "HostGo!" website. Roguesci isn't back.

------------------------------

HELLO! Check my above post....

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by vulture]
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 11:59
roguesci is back


Clear your internet cache, or try the reload icon. I have posted megalomania's full text in the whimsy section if you still cant get into the website -you can see it there.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 12:23


They're not only scaremongerers, they also are liars:

http://www.idefense.com/legal_disclosure.jsp

Which states they warn the concerned party before disclosing the info to the public or taking action.

Besides that, I think it's a fucking arrogant piece of policy. Who do they think they are?

Send your regards to their intelligence department using the contact form on the site.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 14:16
A few thoughts.


Well that's good news! What is not so good that a rather big company such as iDefense actually bothers to take an interest in roguesci!
Although they may not have the legal arm to shut it down completely, the tendency is there - people ARE getting worried about such sites, and DO wish to see it shut down. I wouldnt be surprised if, in a few years time, the laws were changed to disallow discussions of WMDs (such as in EW lol) altogether.

As to the nbk posting here - judging by those news it WAS the real NBK. I am confused though why he claimed that our 'ass was on the line', too... first the 'wolf and then the wolflings'. I can't imagine iDefense taking an interest in MSDB.
Also, it seems it is not the DoD behind that after all. I wonder why this disinformation was posted. To make us worried (as some kind of joke), or becuase he didn't know better at the time, or a half truth with a few white lies to get the ball rolling? (i.e. what it certainly caused is that now there are backup copies of MSDB with other people other than Polv., 4 FTP sites at the last count, a bunch of EW people speculating here, and people becoming genuinely worried that their hobby and particularly discussion thereof might be declared outright illegal). It's strange, the whole thing.

Also... as to Mega's 'revenge' - I wonder whether it's a wise course of action. It sounds nice to pay back in one way or another... but in the end, the gov. etc is at the longer end of the lever. There is no 'winning' in this situation... and provocation could ultimately cause escalation, and even more rigorous laws to prohibit less Energetic Material oriented sites such as this (MSDB) in the future.
Sure there will always be a loophole, and it seems unlikely that it can be eradicated completely, and forever. But is revenge worth the pain/effort that will surely ensue in order to keep such sites running in the future, always hiding and dodging from the 'authorities'?

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by chemoleo]




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 14:56


I quite agree, such action is surely only likely to cause more issues in future; you make it sound like he will be openly advocating WMD information and instruction - which is very much likely to truely attract the attention of the gov't.

For me, a much better way of getting back at them for the trouble would be to make it nigh-on impossible to stop it - perhaps that distributed content system that was suggested, or another means by which there is no centralised server or location for the authorities to target.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 16:40


I think Mega's revenge will be in the form of releasing ALL the information he has gathered and to more than one site.

What kind of reaction "idefense" will get from some of our 10,000 members at roguesci.org is the more scary question. I have little doubt that one or more of them will do something. More than likely their web page will get hacked again and again at the least.

I sure don't understand POing a bunch of people that have fun expirimenting with explosives and chemical weapons. That's just asking for trouble.

Of course Do'gooders never think of the unintended consequences of such actions.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 19:43


I am looking forward to seeing the new PO EW. Members of the pre-attacked EW were never too shy to discuss any demolition strategy, explosive, poison, military patent etc. I never thought that it would be possible to discuss anything explosive-related that would be even more controversial that what was standard for EW. Mega's ideas on future spread of information display a natural progression of Weapon of Mass Instruction that EW has been historically. It is always great to get a hold of new info, but I really don’t see the point of going crazy on distribution. I am glad to see that things are looking better for EW and I would like to express my gratitude to Mad Science Discussion Board for allowing EW members to discuss their problems here.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 21:42


If you go crazy on distribution, you can be sure that an extended outage like this can be avoided in the future. You can maybe even get it through the skulls of people like the "cyber-warriors" at iDefense that the genie will not be put back in the bottle, and freedom of speech isn't just the freedom to say how much you love flowers and sunshine.

Really, any site (especially discussion sites) with a substantial amount of information on it and any degree of controversy should be archived and widely distributed. Some site operators object to sharing their very special private site content that they and 10,000 other people built, but technology can make progress against such attitudes even if impassioned speeches can't.




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mrcfitzgerald
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[*] posted on 10-8-2004 at 00:06


I'll agree with the back-up, no doubt that it'll make it neigh imposible for iDefense to censor any forum in the future. The real question is, should Megalomania make public his more sensitive information (eg. His chemical weapons data) From personal experience, I can see that it is easy enough to obtain all the sources youll ever need in regards to chemical weapons. However, this takes effort -effort that the average "kewl" is not willing to expend. If the data is freely distributed to even nonmembers, it could be detrimental to the forum. By no means am I advocating that the knowledge be hoarded -that would be even worse. I just wonder if only trusted users/members should have access to such controversial sysnthesis, lest the media/gov't find it and go on a witch-hunt. It has happened before, as the gov't removed the ricin patent from the patent office after the media pointed it out; I just hope that we can take some small measures to prevent it from happening again. Any ideas?
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[*] posted on 10-8-2004 at 15:34


Even if they took the ricin patent off-line, it's still available in microfilm at the patent repostitories across the country, online, and in printed form in every copy of (one) of the PMJB.

This just sorts out the amauters from the professionals. :)

The professional will always be able to find the information, if it ever existed, as it's neigh impossible to find and destroy EVERY copy of something, especially on the net.

So, the guber-ment sics one of their lackeys upon RS.org's ISP, to get them to shut us down.

What's the UIC (UnIntended Consequence) of this?

Rather than having one central place to monitor the state-of-the art in improvised E&W, they scatter the pack into a dozen-hundred-thousand little cells of information Freedom Fighters that now communicate secretly, sharing the information via encrypted cloud-networked onion routers, impervious to tracing or monitoring.

Now the E&W progress goes "dark", disappearing from the radar where the pork can't see it anymore. :)

And when Fedaykin attack, they'll be using weapons that the pork didn't know existed because they drove us underground in some foolish belief that this would protect the flock. :p

"Oh My GOD," someone screams..."they're supporting Tuh-ror-izm!"

:rolleyes:

What RS.org supports is freedom of the mind from the tyranny of censorship, imposed by others or yourself.

Nothing is gained by remaining silent, hoping that someone won't use what you know against you, because this has been proven fallicious countless times throughout history.

when the government tried to block The Progressive from publishing the technique behind the construction of H-Bombs in the '70s, was it to stop the commies from learning how to make them?

No, because the commies had built one just a few years after we did.

So who were they trying to keep it a secret from? The People.

Which is silly, since building an H-Bomb requires such material resources that (so far) only nation-state Superpowers can build them.

Yet the chemistry of CW has been open source since they started using them? And now they get all scared about it?

Why?

Is it because CW is well within the reach of anyone who wants to cook up a batch of some nasty in their garage?

Probably.

But guess what Mr. Pork? The goose is loose and he ain't never coming back! :p

It's all out there, we know how to find it, and we're making available anywhere/anytime to anyone who wants to know it.

If that happens to be some raghead Fedaykin with a lust for virgin poon, and who's gunning for an express ticket to Paradise by offing himself in a toxic haze of CW glory against the Infidels, then all the better.




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[*] posted on 10-8-2004 at 16:29


Yet you still fail to provide your PGP key, stop pretending fool!



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chemoleo
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[*] posted on 10-8-2004 at 17:01


Quote:

What RS.org supports is freedom of the mind from the tyranny of censorship, imposed by others or yourself.


That is all well and jolly, nbk, but I do remember two particular instances at RS.org's forum where two valued members got banned (aka censored) for expressing thoughts that you yourself considered anti-American (while others may say, justified, albeit exaggerated).
In this case I guess the freedom of mind (and speech) was indeed 'censored by yourself', to quote your very own words.

It's easy to speak grand words as long as they are not applied to oneself! :(


[Edited on 11-8-2004 by chemoleo]




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[*] posted on 11-8-2004 at 00:58


IF this person is the real NBK, I assume he has now learned his lesson about the true intentions of the US government.

No further comment on this issue please, let's not start throwing mud at eachother; when two dogs fight for a bone, the third one runs off with it, remember?




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[*] posted on 11-8-2004 at 09:21


I recently looked at the log reports for bcis.pacificu.edu/~polverone/ for the first time in a while. It appears that a number of Arabic-language sites have been linking to the content there. <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/i3dad_jehad/">This site</A> appears to be duplicated in several locations on the net, always on free web hosts and many of the copies already dead. You'll notice that it links to a bunch of pages about explosives and rocketry, but not to any forum sites or to Megalomania's chem lab. Almoltaqa.org was another site that had linked to my pages, but it was down when I tried to visit. Some searching indicated that it may have been a Hamas-linked discussion forum.

I also came across quite a few Chinese- and Russian-language sites that I couldn't read very well (only mouseover-hyperlinks and snippets of English), but they all appeared to be about drug chemistry or chemistry in general. I would be interested in seeing some of the pro-jihad sites that supposedly linked to roguesci.org.




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chemoleo
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[*] posted on 11-8-2004 at 13:48
Well well...


Someone who speaks arabic translated the first two lines for me - from the site Polv indicated.

***********
3rd issue:
In the name of god, peace be upon the holy prophet.
1st line: Our brothers and lovers of martyrdom on our path to military recognition and our brothers in islamic associations we return to place to yopur hands the 3rd issue of the volume of preparation, that prepares the jihad platoons capable with gods will of returning teh era of islamic rule.
2nd line: We are innocent in the eyes of god of any work of teh intent of harming muslim people. Before any martyr work you must return to the speeches of Osama bin Laden (may god preserve him) and the speeches of fellow martyrdom leaders.

After that what follows are instructions as to how to download files.
*************

That person immediately started laughing his ass off, saying that no real jihad follower would ever think of writing a page like this (especially since Osamas name is mentioned openly), and after he had a look at the links he couldnt possibly see how this could be of any interest to any real jihad fanatics, particularly where all the information that this site links to are totally public (army manuals (straight from the US army), and hobbyist sites such as brainfeverts etc) .
He doesn't think that anyone serious about jihad and such would look at that site more than once (as it is blatently some goof), despite the fact he knows nothing about pyro/expl, where words like that normally scare anyone at first.

So I wouldnt worry too much about it :)

PS is there away to search the web by searching the code behind the pages (rather than the text)? Because this way one should be able to find ALL the links that link to rogue/SM...

PS2 Vulture, I only thought it fair to point out some inconsistencies. But yes you are right, no point discussing it - as it doesn't really concern me/anyone else anyhow :)

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by chemoleo]




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[*] posted on 11-8-2004 at 15:27


It is possible to find pages that link to pages by going to Google and typing in (for example)

link:www.roguesci.org

Unfortunately, that will only show pages that link directly to the main page of roguesci.org. If people linked to the Controversial Chem Lab, or a subsection of it, or the discussion forum, or a post/subsection from it, those pages would not show up in the above query. Also, discussion forums often generate many hits/links to other pages but are often protected from search engine spiders, so links from them won't show up in any Google query.

I wonder if the sites iDefense thought were linking to roguesci are as amateurish as the page you had your friend translate a bit of. It wouldn't be unsuprising for an organization that's incompetent at evaluating cyber-threats to also be incompetent at evaluating Arabic-language materials and chemistry information.

[Edited on 8-11-2004 by Polverone]




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[*] posted on 12-8-2004 at 07:31


NBK has never had any misunderstanding about the intentions of the US government.

Any who was a REAL member of the E&W Forum knows that I've never been a believer in the hype of "Freedom" that the pols like to spout off about Americans having.

It's all window dressing to keep the populace complacent.

As to why I've not PGP'd any messages to "prove" who I am, does an Aryan need to prove himself Human to insects? :p




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[*] posted on 12-8-2004 at 07:34


Lame



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