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TheMrbunGee
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Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  |
I just want to explore chemistry behind it. So what does the scale mean if it's less than few grams it is worse to purify? And could my product be so
poor quality that it doesn't behave normally? |
I meant that if it's more, than it is harder with naphtha, because solubility of DMT in 50°C is roughly 2g/100ml, which is perfect for 2g
extraction, but quite a small amount if one wants to dissolve 100g of the stuff, which is one of the little reasons to do synthesis instead of
extraction. But as You said, exploration is one more, which is enough on it's own. What I can say is if sugar does not dissolve in water, it ain't
sugar. (or it ain't water.  )
It all depends on why one needs the DMT. I can't say much about synthetic DMT, but when it is extracted from a plant matter single crystallization
from hot naphtha with less than a few % lost, result is really pure DMT, impurities being harmles if not introduced by solvent. There are plant matter
containing close to 2% DMT. If substance is needed for personal use, a 1l scale extraction usually suffices.
If one needs it for further reactions, sure, go synthetic.
So what I am saying is, naphtha is an excellent solvent for DMT, but for small scale. And in subzero temperatures solubility of DMT in light naphtha
goes negligible, which means little losses and reusability.
And plant matter is available widely, and there are many plants containing extractable DMT, but few are quite packed (2%), not legal in many places
but some. Prices are about twice of NaBH4 compared with extracted DMT gram per gram. Including every other component of extraction.
And extractions are done completely house-hold. Dudes with little chemical background writing extraction write-ups like top write-ups here.
So I really don't see a reason for synth, other than being curious for chemistry or making bulk, for selling.
[Edited on 13-5-2020 by TheMrbunGee]
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karlos³
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Preservation of nature?
Less solvent fumes given off in nature too(naphtha, yeah maybe well, but not for extraction of an already much cleaner reaction mixture, we need
something effective there and not selective, don't want to throw around liters of fluid).
Also, what do you pay for NaBH4? 
I think you have no accurate depiction in mind of this.
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Cou
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Weird that DMT is illegal, when it's so unimaginably horrifying that after one huge dose, you're literally physically incapable of smoking it again
because the fight or flight tremors prevent you from holding the pipe to your mouth.
DMT is very serious stuff. You could be sent to your own personal hell for what feels like years.
I think people are only interested in DMT because it's illegal. A forbidden fruit thing. If hallucinogens were available on the shelf, people would
try it once, go "wtf why would someone want to mess with their brain like this" and never touch it again.
[Edited on 14-5-2020 by Cou]
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karlos³
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I have right now my shirt on where I printed a DMT molecule on.
So, I obviously have the authority as a qualified expert to say something wise and thoughtful to your reply, Cou.
People can see that because of the shirt of course.
Usually it is true that the curious but not as enthusiastic explorers of the mind have a saturation limit.
And in case of intravenous injection, I remember that there is even a consensus how many experiences are enough for a lifetime, because of the
guaranteed breakthrough experience if the dosage is right.
I had a friend who made it(not from tryptamine, from indole) and as a nonsmoker he saw no other option than injection of the fumarate.
Four times.
He could describe almost nothing, you saw how he grasped for suitable words and failed, and I'm talking about a well cultured man with 2 Ph.D.'s, a
skilled piano player and one of the top clinical pharmacologists at Merck in his fifties, at the time...
Barely have you ever seen him with a look of utter incomprehension, unable to explain something, unable to comprehend something himself.
Not even "was it good?", well, it definitely "was", but besides that?
I liked that look, because from my own experiences smoking that stuff I remember similar little and can't neither verbalize anything.
And, which confirms that personal limit, I think the last time I've used that stuff... must have been 7-8 years ago.
I don't feel compelled to repeat it.
But I think that everyone benefits from such an experience.
Personal hell?
I really disagree with, harmless people like us here, who have more doubts and feelings of self-guilt and what not, usually don't experience a real
horrible time ever, even if those expect that most often, yet the drug won't kick them in the butt in a bad way.
But give it to one of those self confident, ever grinning politicians in a suit... it will rip them apart and throw all the pieces on a pile, leaving
a broken and shattered "human".
Really for those it should be mandatory. "You want political power? Ok, smoke this stuff first, we'll ask you again after".
Corruption would be gone in no time!
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TheMrbunGee
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| Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ | Preservation of nature?
Less solvent fumes given off in nature too(naphtha, yeah maybe well, but not for extraction of an already much cleaner reaction mixture, we need
something effective there and not selective, don't want to throw around liters of fluid).
Also, what do you pay for NaBH4?
I think you have no accurate depiction in mind of this. |
In what way, I am now more confused about why would one need more than few grams of substance, as I don't think anyone should sell this on streets.
(There would not be many takers anyway, and there are many other reasons not to do so.)
And for the fumes- as some of naphtha is released in atmosphere:
1) It is all extracted from earth to begin with. Literal tons of these hydrocarbons go in atmosphere by natural means, and many times more by
industry.
2) The drop of solubility means one does not have to boil off the solvent.
3) For 2nd point - you can reuse the small amount.
Yes, sorry, had a different price for borohydride in mind. Anyway one can pay 20 euros for a plant matter where a gram of DMT can be extracted.
An for the friend of Karlos, IV feels like roughest RoA, one can make the DMT orally active, or vaporize it. But that is just my personal view on
needles.
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Syn the Sizer
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I am curious, I do not plan on trying to synthesize any tryptamine but I am interested in a couple aspects.
1 is, melatonin is N-Acetyl-5MeO-tryptamine, you can de-acetylate it to 5-MeO-tryptsmine with NaOH.
Again this is to understand the science, I do not plan on synthesizing any drugs, but Alexander Shulgin has written some great documents in organic
chemistry.
After de-acetylating the N group, would MeI methylate the N group to produce 5-MeO-DMT?
question 2 is has 5-MeO-DPeT, 5-methoxy-dipentyltryptamine been explored?
Again, I DO NOT want to synthesize these compounds, I am just curious about the science.
If you wish to U2U I am fine with that.,
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mackolol
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| Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer | I am curious, I do not plan on trying to synthesize any tryptamine but I am interested in a couple aspects.
1 is, melatonin is N-Acetyl-5MeO-tryptamine, you can de-acetylate it to 5-MeO-tryptsmine with NaOH.
Again this is to understand the science, I do not plan on synthesizing any drugs, but Alexander Shulgin has written some great documents in organic
chemistry.
After de-acetylating the N group, would MeI methylate the N group to produce 5-MeO-DMT?
question 2 is has 5-MeO-DPeT, 5-methoxy-dipentyltryptamine been explored?
Again, I DO NOT want to synthesize these compounds, I am just curious about the science.
If you wish to U2U I am fine with that., |
5 MeO tryptamine behaves the same as regular in matter of dimethylation. There are even procedures in this thread that call for 5 MeO tryptamine, but
can be used with plain tryptamine. If 5MeO could be dimethylated with just MeI, the procedure with formaldehyde/borohydride would be unnecessary and
even useless.
And for the melatonin, you can make 5 MeO tryptamine from it easily here's the link: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/mexamine.html
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DrIronic101
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| Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer | I am curious, I do not plan on trying to synthesize any tryptamine but I am interested in a couple aspects.
1 is, melatonin is N-Acetyl-5MeO-tryptamine, you can de-acetylate it to 5-MeO-tryptsmine with NaOH.
Again this is to understand the science, I do not plan on synthesizing any drugs, but Alexander Shulgin has written some great documents in organic
chemistry.
After de-acetylating the N group, would MeI methylate the N group to produce 5-MeO-DMT?
question 2 is has 5-MeO-DPeT, 5-methoxy-dipentyltryptamine been explored?
Again, I DO NOT want to synthesize these compounds, I am just curious about the science.
If you wish to U2U I am fine with that., |
Methyl halides are able to methylate the amine. The problem is that, unlike the Eschweilier-Clarke reaction, methyl halides usually always form the
quaternary ammonium salt. In this case, N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium halide.
If you look at TiHKAL #6, Shulgin uses methyl iodide to form the N,N,N-trimethylammonium iodide. In order to get it to the N,N-dimethyl, he uses two
distinct methods:
1. Plain reduction of the iodide salt with lithium triethylborohydride.
2. A replacement-type reaction with AgCl to form the chloride salt, then pyrolysis of the chloride salt under hard vacuum. Anyone who can find another
example of this sort of reaction (pyrolysis of quaternary ammonium salt) gets 12 cookie points.
"Technically, chemistry is the study of matter, but I prefer to see it as the study of change. Electrons—they change their energy levels. Molecules
change their bonds. Elements—they combine and change into compounds. Well, that’s all of life, right? It’s the constant. It’s the cycle.
It’s solution, dissolution, just over and over and over. It is growth, then decay, then transformation." -Walter White on what chemistry is.
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njl
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https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0030494800935648... like this?
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Syn the Sizer
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Interesting
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karlos³
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Eh, you can just boil the quaternary ammonium salt in ethanolamine to demethylate it.
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mackolol
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I doubt that it works with tryptamine. I haven't seen any successful try on it in internet. Just one or two guys who just screamed that it has worked
for them and no specific data neither any reply from them. For me it didn't work, after pouring water in, I was left with unchanged quaternary salt.
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Opylation
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I’m probably going to get flack for posting this again, since I just posted it a day or so ago in another thread, but after reading the last few
posts on here I felt compelled to share this paper. It’s about the demethylation of quaternary amines using sodium sulfide or potassium thioacetate
Attachment: anastasia2001.pdf (139kB)
This file has been downloaded 395 times
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