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math
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Amount of X-rays to induce useful mutations in seeds
Hello,
I'd like to know what amount (as in keV, mA and milliseconds) of X-rays from a medical generator of "hard" X-rays would be required to induce
useful/growable mutations in cacti and dicotyledon seeds.
Thank you
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phlogiston
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A. Define 'useful'. What are you trying to accomplish?
B. These are not the correct units to specify a dose of ionizing radiation. Read up on the units Grays, Sieverts, and rads.
I think you should:
1. use a very large number of seeds. 1000's at least.
2. irradiate them so much that only 0.1% - 0.001% will germinate and grow into a mature plant
3. Select from these plants the ones that have the mutation you desire.
4. Cross breed with healthy, non-irradiated plants and select the offspring that retains the desired property/mutation
5. repeat step 4 several (>3) times.
As an example (on E coli), see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1078806/?page=2
[Edited on 30-3-2013 by phlogiston]
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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pneumatician
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read "Vegetable Teratology, by Maxwell T. Masters"
i think you don't need the radiactive shit for creating vegetal monsters.
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amazingchemistry
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Instead of trying it out with radiation (previous posters have already pointed out the difficulties with this) why not try a mutagenic chemical (like
hydroxylamine or ethydium bromide or BrDU) while I can't remember the dosage protocols (my genetics class was ages ago) I'm sure the community will be
able to help you. I will probably add more to this when I can get ahold of my old genetics text.
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Solomon
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You could just place a radioactive element in the soil like radium or americium couldn't you?
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PickledPackratParalysis
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Wo! I wonder if you could make animal creations like that too? I think I recall that somewhere there were frogs with like 20 legs or something caused
by radiation or chemicals. It would be neat to make some 'monsters' that you could make a breeding population with!
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Variscite
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Id say go with the mutagenic chemical method, maybe only a perecentage of the seeds will grow or maybe theyll have some serious mutations. Who knows
what will happen, I would be interested as to what happens in this if you decide to do it.
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plante1999
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Use N-Nitrosodimethylamine. I think thats what you want to use to give mutation to something, not to much tough.
I never asked for this.
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hyfalcon
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Gibberellin will also induce mutations in plants.
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Solomon
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N-Nitrosodimethylamine costs almost $3,000 for 100 micro curries http://www.biotrend-usa.com/us/shop/search-query?itemid=ARC-... Also, do you guys have any sources that you could suggest containing high levels
of radium (not clocks)? If so, could you tell about it's isolation.
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plante1999
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Solomon, I meant the non-radioactive chemical... Which can be made from dimethyl amine and a nitrite salt.
I never asked for this.
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Solomon
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So just a quick mix of sodium nitrite and dimethyl amine?
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Trotsky
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There is difference though between a teratogen and a mutagen. You don't want to just cause "plant birth defects," you want to cause a mutation that
can be passed down. Some of these things will indeed cause mutation-like malformation of the plant, but this will not be passed into subsequent
generations.
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phlogiston
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Solomom and others, read a bit about n-Nitrosodimethylamine and think very well if you are equipped and educated enough to handle this safely before
experimenting. Probably not. IMO, This is really not something you should play with in an amateur setting.
An X-ray tube or low level sealed radioactive sources are much safer to handle and there may be other chemicals that are less harmfull but can be used
for the same purpose.
[Edited on 30-6-2013 by phlogiston]
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Solomon
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Radiation was used long ago in industry to produce genetically modified plants. Two plants are alive today that were accidentally made via radiation -
The Rio star grapefruit and the Mentha Piperita peppermint. The rio star grapefruit is more red than any other grapefruit, and Mentha Piperita is
resistant to fungus and is what is used to produce most modern mint oil. Godzilla was created via radiation  . Just like Nick totopolas (a.k.a. the worm guy) noticed a 17% increase in the size of the worms at Chernobyl, a
nuclear enthusiast was able to created almond size peanuts via radiation. The peanut was the NC4x peanut.
[Edited on 6-30-2013 by Solomon]
  
[Edited on 6-30-2013 by Solomon]
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unionised
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Xray tubes have the very great advantage that you can switch them off.
As for the dose, my guess is that theres a compromise between not enough to cause any mutation and so much that you kill the seeds.
If yo don't use enough nothing will happen. Too much will lead nowhere too.
I think the best bet might be a dose that kills roughly half the seeds.
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Solomon
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The old atomic gardens were a column of cobalt 60 (produced by neutron bombardment of cobalt 59) surrounded by circles and circles of plants. This
produced a radiation gradient. The plants at the center usually died, the plants in the middle became botany's form of the radium girls, and the
plants at the outside often had useful mutations.
[Edited on 6-30-2013 by Solomon]
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pneumatician
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go to fuckushima with your seeds, or get a fly to chile
http://rense.com/general96/shockingplanerad.html
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bfesser
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Don't listen to this nutter!
Quote: Originally posted by Solomon  | | Also, do you guys have any sources that you could suggest containing high levels of radium (not clocks)? If so, could you tell about it's isolation.
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I hope that no one responds to this. It is both reckless and illegal.
<strong>Solomon</strong>, between these comments and your <a href="viewthread.php?tid=24798">worthless thread</a> on <a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil" target=_blank">Modafinil</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" />, I'm beginning to see a
trend. Allow me to be forthright and say, I don't like you. In fact, I strongly dislike you. I hope that you don't stick around for much longer,
lest you endanger the lives of other members with more idiotic advice and give this forum a bad reputation.
[edit]
And let's not forget spam like this:
[second edit]
The fact that <strong>AndersHoveland</strong> participated in your Modafinil thread could be held as proof of its lack of value.
[Edited on 7/9/13 by bfesser]
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Variscite
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I agree with Bfesser.
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Solomon
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I am not trying to offend anyone, just giving scientific information... the name of this website is sciencemadness.
[Edited on 7-3-2013 by Solomon]
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Variscite
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Based on your behavior and from what I can summarize about you from your posting, do not even think about trying to purify Radium from clock dials.
You will poison/contaminate yourself, your workspace and possibly others. Im assuming you dont possess the proper equipment, insight or experience to
safely work with it or its salts. Im pretty sure it is also illegal to perform that too.
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Solomon
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Science must advance even at the cost of my own safety. I will not be stopped! Science will not be hindered! The greatest scientists in history
started as amateur scientists. EX: Gordon Moore, Michio Kaku, David Hahn, Werner Von Braun, Thomas Edison, David Packard and thousands of other
scientists who have given their lives to create our modern world! Show some respect! We amateur scientists have helped many people and sacrificed
ourselves to do it! You thank your "valiant soldiers who go to war" (I don't have a problem with that as my cousin is a soldier), but you persecute
your scientists who put far more on the line. Soldiers can go to a whole army for backup, but an amateur scientist is usually alone! A soldier has
about a 1 in 1500 chance of dying compared to amateur scientists having a much greater risk! If you don't have the courage to put your life in danger
that's fine but respect those that do! I give my respect to Myfanwy94 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g3EpSTiAO8) who was a member of this forum that was brave enough to attempt hydrazine synthesis! He died at age
15! RESPECT!
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watson.fawkes
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hyfalcon
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Look what Marie Currie's curiosity did for her.
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