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Author: Subject: Most corrosive agent?
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 08:26
Most corrosive agent?


Hello everyone! I'm new here!

Now, my first question is, how to manufacture the most corrosive agent as possible. I have concentrated Nitric Acid (68%) & concentrated Hydrochloric Acid (35%), in my larder. And this gives the well-known Aqua Regalis, in the properties 1:3. But is it possible to make something even more corrosive than this? I also have concentrated Sulphuric Acid (96%).

Hydroflourine Acid, is said to be extremly corrosive, but I do not have access to that.

Any tip?
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 08:40


here's a tip: don't use HF. it's terribly, terribly toxic.

it is very, very corrosive too, however.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 08:41


Bah. Someone delete this before I have an aneurism.

1. It’s hydofluoric acid, not ‘Hydroflourine Acid’
2. It’s aqua regia not ‘Aqua Regalis’
3. How the hell do you measure how ‘corrosive’ something is.
4. It doesn’t matter because this will be deleted before you read my response.


Here's a tip, look into super acids/bases.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 08:47


What Hang-Man said!

However, impure HF could probably be made with your Sulfuric acid and the mineral Fluorite (which is easily available). I wouldn't try it... insidiously toxic, and (hopefully you already know) it corrodes glass.

On the other hand if you could get potassium or sodium dichromate and combine it with salt and sulfuric acid then you get chromyl chloride.

Argh, somebody stop me! I'm incorrigible and incorriging him.:P
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 08:58


http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/hydrofluo.htm

at 70% it dissolved some of a test tube, and brought the acid to a boil

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by kyanite]
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 09:03


Well, sorry about my english, it's not so good, especially not in technical terms. But I hope you all know what I mean!

Well, I think I skip the Hydofluoric Acid, I know it's very toxic.

But the dichromate-thing sounds interesting. I think I have ammonium-dichromate, mayby it will work as well?

And I know it's difficult to measure how corrosive substances are. But I mean, if you put the agent on, for example iron, how fast it will destroy the material.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 09:15


For the sake of playing devils advocate...

He's from Sweden, which my be the reason for saying "hydroflourine" rather than "hydroflouric".

Aqua Regalis is correct, as it comes directly from Latin, mean- 'Royal Water' or 'Water of Kings'. However, the far more common way of hearing it said, is indeed, aqua regia.

Or then again the guy could quite possibly be a total moron and me defending him is pretty pointless...




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 09:22
Is it just me


or should you learn some basic chemistry before messing with stuff that has a huge potential of hurting you?



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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 09:39


Quote:

And I know it's difficult to measure how corrosive substances are. But I mean, if you put the agent on, for example iron, how fast it will destroy the material.


Consider, dilute nitric acid will attack copper but concentrated Hydrochloric acid will not. This isn't because dilute nitric is 'more corrosive' but because it is an oxidizer as well as an acid. HCl will also attack some things nitric acid will not, (pure Al?)

So if you want to measure how corrosive it is you must also state what it is attacking. Hot H2SO4 will eat organic matter faster than anything else (molten lye would probably be comparable) but wouldn't be as effective on metal as some hydrogen halides.

As for steel, Aqua Regia would most likely be best, or some other acid/oxidizer mix. I have used HCl/H2O2 on hard metals with success. But Aqua Regia won’t eat things like silver where as nitric acid alone will, so specify the target.

I knew Aqua Regia was known as royal water but didn't know regalis was correct, nor did I see he was foreign. All I saw was shitty English and posts 1. Although I still see Vultures circling on this thread.

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by Hang-Man]




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 10:04


With your "gimme the worst thing you got" type of post, I really hope you aren't intending to do anything harmful to others with this acid you want to acquire :o



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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 10:45


No, no! I would definitely not harm anyone. I just want a "cool substance" that will "eat upp things" :D

And yes, it is true that I don't have advanced chemistry-knowledges. But, I'm intressted of it, reading a lot of books and pages on the net about it, mainly about organic chemistry. And I also work part-time at a pharmacy, so have access to many chemicals ;)
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 10:50


There is always "magic acid" fluoroantimonic acid, a 50% solution of SbF5 in HF, vicious stuff, pretty much the strongest superacid in existence I think.



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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 11:29
corrosive sublimate


thats it. ;)

Its also more poisonous than Zyankali. So say some books. Others say otherwise, its not healthy - ok? ;)

And its not water-incompatible. As most supa-acids.....




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 12:04


Also, HSO3F and SbF5 mixture gives a super acid.

And is perchloric acid stronger than sulfuric acid?

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by guy]
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 12:38


http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1791

Caro's Acid picked up the nickname of Pirahna Bath after one witty chemist noticed it eating a candle someone had placed in a beaker of it.:o

It also has the benefit of being made from common and inexpensive reagents.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 13:09


As regards gases, fluorine gas is undoubtedly the most corrosive, especially when there is water vapor also present; or as a vapor, platinum hexafluoride (rather unstable though) which can even abstract electrons from O2, N2 and Xe to form salts.

As regards stable liquids, I would think a mixture of HNO3 and HF. I believe that this can dissolve Pt, unlike aqua regia (HNO3 + HCl) which dissolves Au but not Pt.

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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 13:22


Just adding my bit of warning to what's already been said... Describing HF as simply "toxic" is not adequate. HF is extremely damaging to the bones and causes painful, slow-healing wounds. Do not go anywhere near it if you don't have Calcium Gluconate gel.
Wounds from HF may lead to death or limb amputation!!!




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 14:27


HClO4 (>75%)/H3PO4 mixture at its boiling point will eat glass and metals and detonate if it comes into contact with organic material.



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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 14:54


Bromic, won't concentrated perchloric acid
detonate in contact with organics wether in the prescence of H3PO4 or not?

How about tellurium, isn't H2TeO4 supposed to be a stronger acid per % than H2SO4? I imagine peroxymonotelluric acid would be yet more powerful still.

Can H2O2 exist in solution with HF? I'm not sure, but seing as H2O2 isn't exactly going to oxidise HF due to the lack of F oxyacids, than would a strong solution of HF in H2O2 be possible, and one hell of an oxidiser if it is.:D




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 14:56


Quote:
There is always "magic acid" fluoroantimonic acid, a 50% solution of SbF5 in HF, vicious stuff, pretty much the strongest superacid in existence I think.

a 50% solution of SbF5 in H5 is 10^18 times as acidic as 100% H2SO4.

peroxymonohydrosulfuric acid is also extremely acidic.

if you are asking for the "most powerful acid," are you referring to the acid that has the lowest pK1? but then again we have to factor in the possibility of a pK2, pK3, pK4, etc.




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 16:20


Well, I'm glad that somebody went into more detail about HF. Anyway, I don't think ammonium dichromate can be substituted in making Chromyl Chloride (in an ALL GLASS apparatus, like a retort). Though it makes a neat fake volcano, of course. :D

Another very corrosive material is Chromium Trioxide (need we remind us that Hexavalent Chromium is nothing to play around with casually). This can be made from sodium dichromate and concentrated sulfuric acid... look it up.

But it all depends on what you want to corrode. And it begs the question that if it meant to corrode "anything," what are you gonna keep it in? (And for how long?) ;)

Please read, read and read. Start simple. Many years ago I also had a similar situation... access to chemicals through a part-time job at a pharmacy. Ah, them was the days!
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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 18:56


Quote:

Bromic, won't concentrated perchloric acid
detonate in contact with organics wether in the prescence of H3PO4 or not?


Very true, especially concentrated solutions when boiling. I just added the H3PO4 in the mix because concentrated phosphoric acid, when hot, will attack glass, something perchloric will not do on its own. This is not a special solution, just something mixture in my head that someone would throw out with only a little chemistry.

Superacids are indeed very acidic by pKa standards but how do they react when exposed to virgin metal? Is the ferocity of their attack in parallel to their intense pKa? However they do dissolve long chain hydrocarbons so they must have something going for them.

Molten CsOH would be quite a formidable corrosive, readily attacking glass and other materials.

Bromine pentafluoride supposedly reacts with every element known except the lower noble gasses and nitrogen directly. Explodes on contact with water and organics, just another 'corrosive' compound.

As stated though, it all depends on what criteria fit your definition of corrosive.




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biggrin.gif posted on 9-8-2004 at 19:17


Maybe this scheme could help understand pKa and acidity scale

(old one i know :D)

hofman.gif - 22kB




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[*] posted on 9-8-2004 at 19:50


Quote:
Superacids are indeed very acidic by pKa standards but how do they react when exposed to virgin metal? Is the ferocity of their attack in parallel to their intense pKa? However they do dissolve long chain hydrocarbons so they must have something going for them.


in a superacid, the HF has (just about) completely dissociated leaving a ton of H+ wondering what the hell happened to their respective electrons. as a result, these H+ decide to protonate things, namely hydrocarbons because they can easily take, oh, say dodecane and form 12 methane molecules. it makes the H+ happier and the hydrocarbons dont even know what hits them. as for metals, a similar effect happens. the hydrogen is not so happy without any influence on any electrons so it jumps on metals (even if they aren't so active) because hey, there is a better chance of them getting control of an electron than from SbF6- seeing as the F- are all crazy about the Sb+5.




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[*] posted on 10-8-2004 at 09:04


Quantum:
I'm knowing what i'm doing, and I have done experiments with much more dangerous chemicals than HF.

Reverend Necroticus Rex:
I've heard about this Fluoroantimonic acid, I think it is ment in the Guinnes Records of the World.

JustMe:
I have a very small pot with Chromium Trioxide! This should be examinated... There is no warning signs on it.

Working at the pharmacy is fun! But the boss is not so happy about my orders :D. But it is my dad who is boss there, so...

Some chemicals I have got from there (the most hazardous):
Metallic Sodium
Bromine
White Phosphorus (this was not something to play with!)
Potassium Cyanide
Mercury Chloride
Arsenic
Thallium

I also worked at the hospitals physics-department, as a trainee. Some radioactive isotopes "mystically disappeared", from there ;)
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