Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: HMX/RDX Procedures?
APO
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 627
Registered: 28-12-2012
Location: China Lake
Member Is Offline

Mood: Refluxing

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 15:53
HMX/RDX Procedures?


What is the most best method for producing RDX? I'm refering to which gives the highest yield and the purist product. I've heard of a nitration of Methenamine with WFNA, and Parafomaldahyde added to Ammonium Nitrate/Acetic Anhydride solution. Then once I produce RDX in the best way possible,I would like to know if performing Nitrolysis of it is as effective as producing the HMX by a nitration of Acetic Anhydride, Parafomaldahyde, and Methenamine?


[Edited on 1-5-2013 by APO]




"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
CaliusOptimus
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 96
Registered: 10-6-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Subjectively Objective

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 17:14


The most best method is found via TFSE.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
APO
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 627
Registered: 28-12-2012
Location: China Lake
Member Is Offline

Mood: Refluxing

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 17:23


I'VE FOUND NOTHING REGARDING MY QUESTION!



"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
plante1999
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mad as a hatter

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 17:31


You should have, and please stop spamming the forum with many useless posts.



I never asked for this.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
APO
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 627
Registered: 28-12-2012
Location: China Lake
Member Is Offline

Mood: Refluxing

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 19:00


I haven't, If you don't wanna answer my question directly,don't respond or at least try to help by pointing me to an existing post.



"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Motherload
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 245
Registered: 12-8-2012
Location: Sewer
Member Is Offline

Mood: Shitty

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 20:48


Safest with very good yields - AcAn + NH4NO3 + para
Purest - Sulfamic Acid/Sulfamate + formaldehyde
Separate product and nitrate with 100% HNO3
Highest yield - AcAn + 100% HNO3 + NH4NO3 + Hexamine

Now if you search RDX synth ..... You will find what people reported.
And please don't start new threads without searching.




"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
APO
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 627
Registered: 28-12-2012
Location: China Lake
Member Is Offline

Mood: Refluxing

[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 22:50


Thanks, but for the purist I'm assuming you meant pass Formaldehyde gas through Sulfamic Acid solution and then add Nitric Acid, right? I've never heard of the Acetic Anhydride, Nitric Acid, Ammonium Nitrate and Hexamine method though. Also, what about the HMX Nitrolysis versus direct synthesis?



"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Finnnicus
National Hazard
****




Posts: 342
Registered: 22-3-2013
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 30-4-2013 at 23:49


Plante1999, I hear that! Do you think you could actually do this apo?



View user's profile View All Posts By User
APO
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 627
Registered: 28-12-2012
Location: China Lake
Member Is Offline

Mood: Refluxing

[*] posted on 1-5-2013 at 00:01


I'm certain I can do it, I'm just waiting for my new respirator and gloves to ship.



"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Prometheus23
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 62
Registered: 6-6-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1-5-2013 at 18:32


I would strongly urge you to take a second to rethink what you're planning. From your many many...many posts it is clear you have very little or no practical experience in the lab. I don't mean this as an insult, everyone on this forum including myself started in exactly the same boat. But when it comes to this hobby knowing your limits is EXTREMELY important. Which is why although you are clearly very interested in energetic materials, it doesn't mean that trying to synthesize something like RDX is a great idea.

You are clearly a very curious person, and that is a valuable trait for a scientist. And if you look you'll notice that almost all of the newer and less experienced members (at least for energetic materials and drugs) love to spend a large amount of time envisioning new potential compounds and novel ways of synthesizing them. But it's easy to get carried away with this kind of structural masturbation (as Nicodem once so eloquently put it) and lose sight of what you are actually capable of doing in a real lab setting. And that can be a recipe for disaster.

Attempting to make high explosives without a solid foundation of knowledge of chemistry is equally as (or more) dangerous as other members talking about wanting to synthesize ultra potent fentanyl analogues in their kitchens. It's not only your own life you may be risking but others around you as well.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Motherload
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 245
Registered: 12-8-2012
Location: Sewer
Member Is Offline

Mood: Shitty

[*] posted on 1-5-2013 at 21:37


I will not tell you the synthesis using either of those methods..
There is Plllleeeennnntttyyy of discussion regarding all those methods and more on this board.
If you can't find it ... You probably shouldn't try to synthesize them. Acetic anhydride is very hazardous and not to mention black listed in most countries. Don't get yourself into trouble.
Looking at some of your posts ... You seem new to chemistry.
Starting of with energetics is definitely not the best way to learn chemistry.




"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemcam
National Hazard
****




Posts: 423
Registered: 18-2-2013
Location: Atlantis
Member Is Offline

Mood: I will be gone until mid-september, on a work contract.

[*] posted on 1-5-2013 at 21:48


APO, What primary are you planning to use to detonate your charge and how much rdx do you want to make?

Other people: You can tell a lot about a person by the answers they give to those questions.

[Edited on 5-2-2013 by chemcam]




My YouTube Channel: ChemCamTV
IRC Channel: #sciencemadness @ irc.efnet.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Motherload
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 245
Registered: 12-8-2012
Location: Sewer
Member Is Offline

Mood: Shitty

[*] posted on 2-5-2013 at 00:36


Chemcam
I am a bit confused by your last post and its not about the detonating the charge ?

"Other people: You can tell a lot about a person by the answers they give to those questions."



[Edited on 2-5-2013 by Motherload]




"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemcam
National Hazard
****




Posts: 423
Registered: 18-2-2013
Location: Atlantis
Member Is Offline

Mood: I will be gone until mid-september, on a work contract.

[*] posted on 2-5-2013 at 01:20


Quote: Originally posted by Motherload  
Chemcam
I am a bit confused by your last post and its not about the detonating the charge ?
No one mentioned detonating anything.


Well generally when people make a secondary the whole purpose is to detonate it. RDX will sure use a lot of reagents to just dispose of it, so, one must assume the goal is to detonate. Everyone here is giving APO shit saying he knows nothing of explosives and will not help him. What I am trying to do is get him to display some knowledge so this thread is not a total waste and people will start exchanging words that have purpose. Does that answer your question Motherload?




My YouTube Channel: ChemCamTV
IRC Channel: #sciencemadness @ irc.efnet.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Antiswat
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1591
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline

Mood: dangerously practical

[*] posted on 2-5-2013 at 08:35


i have another idea for you, but read this whole through first..

for safety, if runoff happens keep ammonia nearby, it will produce NH4NO3/NH4NO2 (which further decomposes to H2O and N2) in contact with NO2
for higher yields ive understood many doesnt cover up their beakers, use aluminium foil as HNO3 pretty much doesnt react with aluminium

also another idea..
i guess what you want by RDX is strenght and relatively easy to make
consider MHN instead, it can be made from basically hexamine, HCl and lead nitrate, and its very brisant

also most important, read up alot before doing something new, and do it in a small scale to minimize eventual runoff's or something alike, unexpected heating or whatever.

doing it very small the first time is the ideal way to start up (:




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Motherload
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 245
Registered: 12-8-2012
Location: Sewer
Member Is Offline

Mood: Shitty

[*] posted on 2-5-2013 at 13:14


How do you propose to synthesize Mannitol Hexa Nitrate using Hexamine ?




"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Antiswat
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1591
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline

Mood: dangerously practical

[*] posted on 3-5-2013 at 01:10


Quote: Originally posted by Motherload  
How do you propose to synthesize Mannitol Hexa Nitrate using Hexamine ?


just found out yesterday that it was an entirely different thing, was quite confused over why people didnt try this before
the compound produced by hexamine chloride and then lead nitrate would be Monomethylamine Nitrate which i understood as being the same as MHN

but i have something else instead..
similar synthesis of MHN is done with sorbitol
the oily substance is dissolved in ethanol and equal amount of water is added to precipitate the pure (well relatively pure we can assume) Sorbitol Hexanitrate
similar properties to MHN and sorbitol should be much easier to get than mannitol




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemcam
National Hazard
****




Posts: 423
Registered: 18-2-2013
Location: Atlantis
Member Is Offline

Mood: I will be gone until mid-september, on a work contract.

[*] posted on 4-5-2013 at 09:35


Antiswatt, I think HDN (hexamine dinitrate) is made from hexamine, HCl and a nitrate salt.



My YouTube Channel: ChemCamTV
IRC Channel: #sciencemadness @ irc.efnet.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
APO
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 627
Registered: 28-12-2012
Location: China Lake
Member Is Offline

Mood: Refluxing

[*] posted on 5-5-2013 at 21:20


Anyone done the Nitrolysis type stuff?



"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top