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Cou
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Stupid idiots make meth labs and ruin it for us
I ****ing hate stupid meth labs. every time a meth lab is discovered, an innocent teenager playing with his chemistry set has his house raided by a
swat team and gets arrested, and the US gets a little bit stupider.
If you say you have sodium chloride or dihydrogen monoxide, you're probably getting an FBI agent at your door in a few hours. If you even say the word
"acid" in public, you become known as the town terrorlst and end up on the fbi watch list. why did I have to be born so late? why couldn't I be born
in the Gilbert's chemistry sets days, when you could easily go to a store and get chemicals that would land you in prison today? Uh oh, he has sodium
chloride, I bet he's making a meth lab, let's get a search warrant, arrest him, and make sure he loses all interest in science! That should make sure
we never have a cure for cancer! who cares??!?!
I mean, I asked my science teacher if I could use the copper carbonate in the science lab, and she said no. Seriously, copper carbonate is that green
tarnish that grows on copper, even if it was used for meth labs or making bombs or something, you could easily scrape it off a tarnished piece of
copper. It wouldn't make a difference if you scraped it off of copper or got it from a container, you can't use it to make meth or bombs.
The statue of liberty is covered in it, so technically you are being unpatriotic. all i wanted to ****ing do is put it in hydrochloric acid and plate
an iron nail, not make a bomb and blow up the earth. This is why I want to personally find all meth labs and put an end to them before the police find
them, just so the government thinks people stopped making them and lets go of their stupid chemophobia.
I also want to find the retards who made those horrible meth labs, and swirl their toothbrushes around in a gas station toilet, because nothing will
ever make up for the public ignorance they caused. One day, the government will making ****ing water illegal since it is used to make meth, and we
will all die of dehydration.
Better 
I ran it through the Squirrel processor
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by ScienceSquirrel]
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elementcollector1
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No, if you say acid, people think you're on it.
If you say sodium chloride, people in generally are surprisingly quite intelligent enough to know what it is.
Wouldn't it be the DEA instead of the FBI?
California already did make water illegal - or attempted to, at any rate.
Also, seriously. You know how far your finger is from the capslock key? Usually about an inch. All you have to do to not sound like a flaming jackass
is to press that button until that green light is off.
This post makes my head hurt - can we send it to Detritus?
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
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Cou
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DEA, FBI, doesn't matter, someone in a black suit is going to break down your door, pin you to the ground, and handcuff you just for making a baking
soda and vinegar volcano.
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by Cou]
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Finnnicus
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I think although this thread is a little uncouth, maybe we can make it a forum (metaaaaa!) for the meth lab issue. I think that it needs to be harder
to obtain things tht are used specifically for making meth. So not acetone, not iodine, not dhmo! Pseudoephedrine needs to be
substituted, which is obviously no easy task.
As seen here www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16314#pid2833...
At least removing the ephedrine route would make it a lot harder for "amateur" cooks, even though other routes are still viable. This is just opinion,
and easier said than done.
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elementcollector1
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Quote: Originally posted by Cou  | DEA, FBI, doesn't matter, someone in a black suit is going to break down your door, pin you to the ground, and handcuff you just for making a baking
soda and vinegar volcano.
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by Cou] |
...Not really.
I know most government officials have likely never taken nor remember a chemistry class in their life, but call me optimistic - I just don't think
they're that stupid.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
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chemcam
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A few houses up from mine there is a county sheriff, he walks his dog by my house all the time and he is a pretty friendly guy. During the forth of
July time he always shows interest in the things I make even though he knows nothing. I think most people on this board think cops are the most evil
people in the world. Only if you are doing stupid things will they bug you. Making drugs or blowing things up in a residential area deserves
punishment. When I was a teen I had so many cop interactions I can't even count them. Everytime though I desereved what I got. Never has a cop hassled
me for no reason. A person like me always hates cops and blames them for ruining their lives, I however accepted that I was doing wrong and do not
hate the cops for doing their job.
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binaryclock
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Cops are really the guardians of modern society.. They are just human and trying to do their job. I agree some are corrupt, but in general, they have
families and just want to have a good life and be left alone.
Don't blame the cops, blame society. Blame the war on drugs.
I always find it funny that the governments ban chemicals like Ammonium Nitrate and most of the nitrates, but it is so easy to create potassium or
sodium chlorate from table salt (NaCl) or potassium table salt (KCl) which is an extremely strong oxidizer and extremely explosive when combined with
sugar.
Meth is a huge problem. It is too easy to make and too addictive. I hate the fact that it creates "chemophobia" in the general public, but we need
to do all we can to support the authorities to stop meth labs. The drug is just too destructive and too addictive to be of any good use in society!
Current Project: Playing with my new Laboy advanced distillery kit!
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Organikum
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Some just dont understand the problem, obviously. It is not about meth or drug labs, as in europe we have the same problem but just it catalyzes on
the matter of explosives, what leads to the police raiding some thousands of homes just for people ordering LEGAL chemicals.
So see, the problem is not in some peope misbehaving and making drugs and explosives in dangerous ways, as that has always happened and will always
happen for being part of human nature. Actually taking drugs being more part of human nature as being universal then blowing things up as thats more a
matter of adolescent males, but thats another story.
Now, TATA! the problem is the mindset of society which becomes more and more patronizing. It is just that people like to spy into others people
bedrooms and like to put controls on things comletely private. Thats not even a question of political orientation - virtually every political
mainstream party exploites the idiotic but prevailing (here on SCM too, btw) ideology of the citizen in fear which says: "I am a good one, I would
behave without control but we need tight control as I fear anybody else besides me might be an antisocial asshole".
And thats it. You, the starter of this thread are praying the same line, the same what makes soccer moms, swedish social workers and plain fascists
follow the same policy in realworld. Control, control, fear, fear.....control...
Our problems will get more and more as long not at least those who are suffering from them get their mindset right.
A good starter would be:
It does not matter WHAT you are making in your lab as long it is done in a responsible way.
And last not least: I am pretty sure that most on SCM who experiment with psychoactive compounds, and there are plenty, are doing this in a very
responsible way, the same is true for the friends of the youthful madness of boom, boom. And that are the main driving forces in chemistry, admit or
deny it, it is the truth since chemistry exists.
Maybe better work hand in hand, destroy or at least sabotage the mainstream mindset of permanent patronizing and educate those who are in need to act
responsible in thei labs and in consequence - in their lives.
And dont do all caps please.
And chemcam, your overblown sig is just as insulting to the eye as all caps is, might you please change it?
regards
/ORG
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by Organikum]
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chemcam
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Do you really believe two font sizes above normal and bold is such a problem? If so, read on.
You are trying to take away my freedom to have a custom signature advertizing my channel, just like said government is trying to take away your
freedom to study chemistry in a hands on way. How does that make you feel? I for one want to take advantage of my signature box and use it to set
myself apart from others so long as the option is there.
EDIT:
I don't want to argue so I changed it. Not worth it man, why even complain at all? It really pisses me off when I am asked to change something as well
as you insulting me while trying to ask. You even throw a please in there, what a dick move.
[Edited on 5-17-2013 by chemcam]
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Organikum
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| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam | Do you really believe two font sizes above normal and bold is such a problem? If so, read on.
You are trying to take away my freedom to have a custom signature advertizing my channel, just like said government is trying to take away your
freedom to study chemistry in a hands on way. How does that make you feel? I for one want to take advantage of my signature box and use it to set
myself apart from others so long as the option is there.
EDIT:
I don't want to argue so I changed it. Not worth it man, why even complain at all? It really pisses me off when I am asked to change something as well
as you insulting me while trying to ask. You even throw a please in there, what a dick move.
[Edited on 5-17-2013 by chemcam] |
Its still overblown, but thanks nevertheless.
I did not want to insult you and I never challenged your right to advertise your channel, I think you are a bit misinterpreting, willingly
misinterpreting what I actually wrote.
See I even did not not call it spamming what would be not incorrect, and I did so for not stepping onto your feelings. I just expressed my feelings
about it and asked you politely to change it. Cannot see anything wrong here. How would you suggest I should have adressed the issue?
Not at all?
Sorry, no, thats not possible. Your sig was/is offensive to the eye of anybody who just wants to read posts, gather information. You know why SCM has
no avatars and schnickschnack? No? Thought so. Maybe you think about it, and the question what makes SCM so successful in spreading information.
regards
/ORG
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blogfast25
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It would be more productive to discuss bans/restrictions of certain materials on a case-by-case basis, rather than in these generic 'F*CK THEM!'
terms. After all, it's safe to say that no one here would agree with the processing/production of certain large scale explosive/toxic/flammable
products in the domestic area where they live. In short, there are restrictions that are justified and some that are not.
But g'ments in the 'Free World' seem increasingly hell bent on eroding civil liberties in the name of 'the War on This' or 'the War on That'. And
having these often kneejerk reactions enforced by a police force that by and large knows as much about chemistry as a cow about eating saffron leads
to quite absurd investigations/prosecutions of individuals that have no malicious intent.
Personally, since I opened my online chemshop two years ago I've already been interviewed by police (but not 'under caution') once, for the
purchase of 5 L of technical acetone from a 'suspect' supplier. Nothing came of it, neither for me nor the 'suspect', as the transaction was
perfectly legal and the product hadn't been bought from said 'suspect' supplier to begin with. But spending two hours ('voluntarily') with the cops to
clarify the matter was a slightly unnerving experience. Stated reason for the investigation was that 'acetone is a precursor to certain illegal
drugs'.
I expect more of this to come in the future. And with some over-zealous and trigger happy law enforcers on the beat, it's not a thought I cherish...
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by blogfast25]
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Fantasma4500
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wouldnt this be better fitting in societal issues? im pretty sure we all agree on exactly what you said, or at least most of it.. the ones in control
doesnt care what reasons you have for what youre doing, if it could potentially be of risk to you theyre gonna remove your rights to do it now or
later
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binaryclock
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You guys can argue against the cops until you're blue in the face. Growing up, I saw first hand what meth does to people, and I've done my share of
bad things back then too.. never again though. Sure, there are responsible users but they are few and far between. Because of the high level of
addiction, most people cannot recovery successfully from a meth addiction.
Basically, meth uncontrolled is a certain issue and killing the massive labs is a good thing for society. If the drug wasn't so addictive and
destructive, then it could be a recreational drug who people could experiment with... but unfortunately this is not the case... it's like cigarettes..
once you try a few, you want to buy your own pack and most of us know how that all ends up.
I'm not trying to be a conformist at all. I think there are perfectly good things one can do that is against some laws. But meth production for
purposes of selling or personal usage is not one of them. If people on SCM are experimenting with psychoactive drugs, there are many other good
alternatives to meth that are not as addictive and don't pose such a risk to health. I'm sure there are lots of organic drugs that aren't even
classified if that's what "drives" your interest in chemistry. And BTW, I do not agree that bombs and drugs drive people's interest in chemistry.
Sure, that's where all the money may go in terms of industrial funding, but for the home chemist I'm more interested in the reactions and exploration
of the world and the elements.
In the end, whatever you choose to do with chemistry, do it safely and do not be a negative effect on society and all will be well. Support the cops
busting the bad guys. Sure you may get an interview once in a while, but if you aren't doing anything illegal then why worry? That "interview" is
just them trying to do their jobs.
Current Project: Playing with my new Laboy advanced distillery kit!
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blogfast25
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binaryclock:
You seem to be missing the point entirely: if, because of the behaviour of a few, the many who would otherwise use 'precursors to drugs/explosives'
responsibly get barred from using those chemicals then surely that's not a good thing?
No one here is trying to stop the cops from busting meth labs/meth dealers or arguing that these things shouldn't be illegal. But banning certain
fairly plain chemicals is punishing the many for the crimes of the few. It's called 'law of unintended consequences'.
Further bans on certain chemicals will only lead to underground production of these substances with all the itinerant dangers that entails: blanket
prohibitions rarely work that well.
If the guy who wants to do some Grignard reactions is stopped from doing so by the increasingly widespread ban on diethyl ether then that is plain
stupid and a waste of police time and tax payers' money. Bust the guys who are using diethyl ether for illegal purposes but leave the rest of us
alone.
And interviewing people who own certain chemicals without prima facia evidence of actual wrongdoing is wasteful, ineffective and annoying.
Unless you want to live in a surveillance state there's no need for it.
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by blogfast25]
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elementcollector1
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I wonder: If a cop showed up to a suspect 'lab' and brought drug-testing supplies, what would they do if the suspect had not a trace on him,
completely clean (and explained that he was doing home chemistry)? Would they let him go?
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
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blogfast25
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EC1:
Once the suspicion has been pointed at you it won't go away that easily. The 'suspect' I was referring to in my first post here was the guy who
supplied legally and in good faith some chemicals to the Norwegian madman Anders Breivik. For that he got his shop busted in spectacular
style, only to be found completely innocent (he was never charged with anything and later became a material witness in the case against Breivik). But
Polish police continue to harass him, hence also that inquiry into acetone. It doesn't really bother him because he plays strictly by the rules but
he's basically an eternal suspect because some coppers are convinced he must be doing something wrong. It's a kind of guilt (NOT!) by association...
[Edited on 17-5-2013 by blogfast25]
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binaryclock
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I agree, the banning of chemicals is stupid. Maybe I missed the point in the walls of text and the caps
Current Project: Playing with my new Laboy advanced distillery kit!
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solo
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" Stupid idiots make meth labs and ruin it for us"....Cou
......wow , another boy scout, wanting to play marbles his way, or he will pick up and go home.....just click your heels and things will
change.....the war on drugs or should say the war on personal rights creates problems.....that's the issue....think outside the miopic society's
box.....solo
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
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Eddygp
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This should go in Legal and Societal Issues. Solo, I agree with you.
there may be bugs in gfind
[ˌɛdidʒiˈpiː] IPA pronunciation for my Username |
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Steve_hi
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| Quote: |
I wonder: If a cop showed up to a suspect 'lab' and brought drug-testing supplies, what would they do if the suspect had not a trace on him,
completely clean (and explained that he was doing home chemistry)? Would they let him go?
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They would probably plant some so they would like they actually did something useful.
The real problem is people wanting to control what others do.
If it wasn't called illegal by the legislators then doing meth wouldn't be a crime. If people are dumb enough to do drugs let them when they die the
problem will be solved.
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Cou
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Or they would just find something else to arrest them for. No meth lab? Just search his computer and find out if he downloaded a torrent. I hope they
crack down on drugs and stop it one day, just so america's chemophobia will go away. Why couldn't I be alive in the days when they had tons of
chemistry and science stores, and they would happily give you nitroglycerin without thinking "TERRORIST"
It doesn't help that I am persian. I asked my science teacher if I could just borrow a beaker, and her tone of voice implied that I was trying to make
a bomb. I bet if a white kid asked her, she would go "Sure, go ahead, it's great that you are learning about chemistry! If you want, you can have some
nitric acid and thallium metal too! Goodbye, have fun!"
In fact it's true, there is this white nerd in my class that always talks about dangerous things like plutonium and the teacher just laughs... but if
i say the same thing she gets all suspicious
[Edited on 18-5-2013 by Cou]
[Edited on 18-5-2013 by Cou]
[Edited on 18-5-2013 by Cou]
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confused
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well, some school have really strict rules about borrowing lab equipment, mostly due to liability if something happens.or because of chemophobia
Im pretty sure it has nothing to do with race
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Cou
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Do you think they would let me do the experiments in the science lab instead, even if my parents have to sign a liability form? I'm embarrassed to ask
about it, since i already make myself look like a terrorist with the beaker
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turd
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How comes that incoherent drivel wasn't immediately detritused? OP is clearly either trolling or demented. I wouldn't give any chemical to such an
unstable person either.
And whatever, I'll cook up a batch of fine N-methylated amphetamine whenever it pleases me and none of the whiners will stop me. I have the impression
that addiction to hysteria is more dangerous and wide spread than addiction to amphetamines.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Thread Moved
18-5-2013 at 14:40 |
amazingchemistry
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We have to recognize that the dislike of cops (or authority in general) evident in threads like this (and there are a few) is misplaced. Sure, some
cops are corrupt, some are chemophobic and some are just out to get a power trip but most are just regular people trying to do their job and put food
on their table. When we see a problem we want to put the blame squarely on a particular person or group of people to make us feel better, but I think
that in this case the society at large is to blame. Let's start with meth labs. They only exist because people demand meth, and because the drug is
very addictive and they aren't able to buy it at their local pharmacy they are willing to pay a premium to obtain it illegally. As long as there are
addicts there will be profit, and as long as there is profit there will be labs. How about the cops you say? Well, let's posit that the cops may hate
the meth labs as much as the OP seems to hate them. Now add a couple of facts: 1. Cops are generally not required to either take or pass chemistry to
become cops (were you required to take or pass law enforcement theory to become a chemist?). 2. As much as we would like to make it otherwise,
chemistry is not as big a hobby as it used to be. In some areas it'd be a safe assumption to say that the glassware and chemicals you just saw on
somebody's driveway are going to a meth lab rather than to a hobby chemist. Now, mind you, it may not be a correct assumption, but we all operate on
assumptions (including LE). Once you have this combination of ignorance and hatred of meth labs, is it any wonder that cops come busting through
doors? Perhaps if the OP still had a hatred of meth labs, but lacked any knowledge of chemistry, he'd do the same. What about us hobby chemists? do we
do anything to either contribute to or help alleviate this problem? Well, perhaps the attitude of some of us is not conducive to good relations LE.
Perhaps it'd be good if we starting cultivating contacts with LE (perhaps by finding a friendly sheriff like the one chemcam found) instead of just
saying something like "those damn coppers will only take my chemicals when they pry them from my cold dead fingers." This attitude by default excludes
any cooperation between us and LE and I don't think this is a good place to be. Now, how about the politicians? Aren't they responsible for this mess?
In a certain sense, yes. They, after all come up with the laws that LE have to follow. However, we need to remember that in order to keep their job
(which is what politicians, like most other regular people, are concerned with) politicians have to answer to the demands of the majority.
Unfortunately, the majority, along with the politicians themselves, fall into the same category as LE as far as needing to understand chemistry to do
their job goes.
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