rocketsurgeon
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Making ammonia
Last night I found a vase that had urea fertilizer in it for about a month. I wafted the odor towards me and it smelt like ammonia.
I was wondering if urea will decompose into ammonia.
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plante1999
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Yes it will. The reaction is catalysed by urease, and happen to completion in basic environement.
By itself, urea can be conssidered as ammonium cyanate.
(NH2)2CO + H2O -) CO2 + 2NH3
I never asked for this.
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rocketsurgeon
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Thank you
Good to know.
I assume it is not pure enough to use in an experiment without purification.
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plante1999
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It depend on the synthesis, but if it was already purified, it should be good, if not, then you need to purefy all fertilizers anyway.
I never asked for this.
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rocketsurgeon
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agin thanks
By.
I also like your website.
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plante1999
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Your welcomed, and thanks!
I never asked for this.
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Oopsy_daisy
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I actually made some ammonia by mixing urea and sodium hydroxide in a minimal amount of water in a filtration flask and then leading the generated gas
into ice-cold water.
By titration the concemtration was then determined to 2.5 M. A bit of a disappointment and the experiment was never revisited
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RobertRobinson75
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This comment made me go and click on the website... I want to second this, I've been looking for some experiments to get started with again in
chemistry. As I'm interested in biochem too I think I'll try the white lead procedure first. Great website! 
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Tdep
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Quote: Originally posted by RobertRobinson75  |
This comment made me go and click on the website... I want to second this, I've been looking for some experiments to get started with again in
chemistry. As I'm interested in biochem too I think I'll try the white lead procedure first. Great website! |
I third (?) this. Waiting for an expansion of the birkeland process, sounds great!
If one, say, had access to a tesla coil, would that provide enough voltage to get a resonable yield?
Making nitrates from a tesla coil seems insane.
Awesome, but insane.
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testimento
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I was thinking of making a small ostwald reactor with normal air compressor at 8bar attached to it. In the first pot there would be put urea and
sodium hydroxide solution which is heated, and air is compressed at the side of it. This gas mixture would rise up to a catalyst obtained from a car
and heated up to 900C with insulated resistance wire to cause the formation of NO, and this gas is lead into middle chamber where it reacts with air
to form NO2 and then it is bubbled through water before exiting the valve.
Making nitric acid via birkeland is another bit, I was thinking of making an HV transformer at 20kV 150mA and having two steel bars for electrodes, a
small air pump blowing air under the electrodes and similar construction with middle chamber and the water trap as for ostwald. This system wouldnt be
need pressurized, although it could increase yields. The problem wirth birkey is that it eats electricity like a green politics, you could end up
using more than 100 kilowatts a day easily just to produce few liters of nitric. the efficiency of the birkey is substantially increased with high
power magnets inserted around the electrodes, that will cause the electric arc to spread into sphere and annihilate the nitrogen bonds much more
vastly.
The haber process is a little more challenging mut i though that using an 200bar compressor for 600usd that would get the nitrogen from gas burner,
catalyst to remove co, sodium hydroxide scrubber to remove co2 and soot and then dried with cacl and deoxygenated with heated iron and hydrogen would
be generated with electrolytic cell in correct ratios controlled by production rates and valves and then lead through 4 pieces of stainless reactors
filled with fe3o4 catalyst and heated up to 300-500c with nicrome or propane burner in an insulated space and between each pass the gas would go
through cooler condenser to condense the produced ammonia. I calculated that one should be able to make at least 10-20 liters of ammonia in a day with
ease by using apparatus that fits in 1x2m table and costs about 2000usd max. the parts must be made from high nickel steel(316 is best) because the
hydrogen embrittlement will cause the reactors to blow up and shatter like a glass eventually if made from carbon steel.
as long as 1 can get urea for shit dirt price i prefer it for making ammonia and nitric. 1 can make 10 liters of nearly pure nitric in few hours by
distilling urea+naoh generated ammonia with car catalyzer and cheap air comp.
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plante1999
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| Quote: Originally posted by testimento |
as long as 1 can get urea for shit dirt price i prefer it for making ammonia and nitric. 1 can make 10 liters of nearly pure nitric in few hours by
distilling urea+naoh generated ammonia with car catalyzer and cheap air comp. |
I doupt this, at least, it may make lots of diluted nitric acid, but not 10L of 99-100% nitric acid.
"If one, say, had access to a tesla coil, would that provide enough voltage to get a resonable yield? "
Birkelend process is very low yielding and extremly energy intensive. If I where to invest a small amount in nitrate production, it would be in
"nitrobacters" reactor. At least theses do not necessite highly specialised equipement and heavy investment.
"I think I'll try the white lead procedure first"
Good luck, and if you need help, you cna U2U me.
Thanks for all the comment!
I never asked for this.
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Tdep
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But it would be theoretically possible?
I hardly considered it would be efficient?
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plante1999
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Yes, but generally, a "fat" arc (high amperage) is a lot more efficient than a tiny spark of very very low amperage.
Toi be honest, it would be more of a lab curiosity than anything very useful.
I never asked for this.
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testimento
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Urea and naoh will make sodium carbonate and ammonia as per 2x NH2 + CO + NaOH = NaCO3 + NH3 (not balanced). You get the principle. The naoh+urea
solution will be heated with strong burner to make it as far as nearly boiling to get all ammonia out. And yes, the nitric will be dilute, up to
40-68% depending on the conditions, but you will concentrate it to 68% or use sulfuric to get 99%.
The problem with the birkeland is indeed the need for power. If you get 20kV arc, you would need to use 20kW of electricity to generate 1 amp arc
which is about double the 3-phase power line (11kW) and 6 times the energy an ordinary 240V can give before fuses burn. Only economically viable way
would be to use the thermal energy to heat your house if you live in northern areas, or use a 20kW diesel generator to generate the power. This kind
of device will, of course, create a dozen or two liters of pure nitric acid in dilute form.
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Random
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| Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 | | Quote: Originally posted by testimento |
as long as 1 can get urea for shit dirt price i prefer it for making ammonia and nitric. 1 can make 10 liters of nearly pure nitric in few hours by
distilling urea+naoh generated ammonia with car catalyzer and cheap air comp. |
I doupt this, at least, it may make lots of diluted nitric acid, but not 10L of 99-100% nitric acid.
"If one, say, had access to a tesla coil, would that provide enough voltage to get a resonable yield? "
Birkelend process is very low yielding and extremly energy intensive. If I where to invest a small amount in nitrate production, it would be in
"nitrobacters" reactor. At least theses do not necessite highly specialised equipement and heavy investment.
"I think I'll try the white lead procedure first"
Good luck, and if you need help, you cna U2U me.
Thanks for all the comment! |
Did you try making nitrobacter reactor?
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