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Author: Subject: NPED detonator
golfpro
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[*] posted on 27-6-2013 at 18:51
NPED detonator


I am going to make and use these 100% of the time, if I can get some reassurance they will work at least 65% of the time. I am not that serious about this little hobby, and I think it would be kind of nice knowing I can fiddle around with blasting caps and whatnot knowing there are zero primaries anywhere. I know ETN is sensitive and almost a primary, but better than acetone peroxide.

I saw the detonator on a video somewhere. Approx. .7 grams of etn into a thin metal tube and pressed, then .5mm of compressed al foil disc pressed on top, then a bit of al flakes and etn flakes half and half, about 3mm, then another .5mm compressed al foil disc, softly presed on, on top goes pressed KNO3/Su or the hotter burning stuff in model rocket motors, but it has to be drilled out and kind of arduous to do that

If this could work more than half the time, I'd do it. I know I could use HMTD, and AP in a straw or something both of which I've made small amounts before, but I have read bad things about those, I wouldn't want it to pop as I put it into the main charge.

If I could I'd test it, but I can't.

What is the chance of a straw filled with .2 grams pressed HMTD, sealed and fused, detonating unexpectedly while handling very carefully for no apparent reason?
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golfpro
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[*] posted on 29-6-2013 at 19:13


What is a hot burning fuel to use in a KNO3 mixture? I know silicon is, but I don't have access to that, I didn't think KNO3/sugar burned very hot.
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[*] posted on 30-6-2013 at 10:47


Sprinkle some magnesium powder also it burns really hot or you can even use little bit of thermite mix . Now surely you will get a very high temperature more than enough



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[*] posted on 30-6-2013 at 11:36


Coarse magnalium is a good fuel in a KNO3 mixture. It will burn slowly but with a very hot flame.
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[*] posted on 5-7-2013 at 12:39


I had a scary situation that I wasn't anticipating yesterday. So I was 6/6 on NPED detonations, well last night I was going to do something that has worked in the past. 2 grams pressed into a little pellet in a short cardboard tube, and on top goes a thin peice of etn inside of Al foil tubing, which is under some KNO3/Sugar seperated by 1mm compressed al foil. Something I did different this time, don't ask why, I packed the KNO3/Su. I have seen a delay after the fuel burns out before it detonates from the heat, so I watched the fuel burn out waiting for an explosion, nothing happened I didn't know if the small amount of ETN deflagrated or not though, so I now have 2 grams of hot ETN that had to be close to a heatshock det. I have to deal with. I waited 30 mins for it to cool before I went near it, then poured room temp water all over to soak it, then removed the detonator from the wet 2 grams of ETN.

I have been contemplating what is more dangerous, an undetonated heatshock ETN detonator or HMTD in general? The reason this is so scary is because I have seen these explode 5 seconds or so after all of the heating fuel is burned out.
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[*] posted on 9-7-2013 at 15:41


I want to bring this thread back because I think NPED is much better for everyone than peroxide. My main goal is to somehow acquire sodium azide it probably will have to be made, and then metathesis into Lead Azide.

But I think if an NPED detonator works 6/7 times, the one time it doesn't detonate isn't just bad luck, I did something different with that one which I already know what.

When people say they are not reliable does that mean they will work 19 times out of 20? or they will only work 1 out of 3 times? I know they are bulky and not very realistic but who cares? Look at this vid, this looks like an NPED was used, and this person does everything so proffesionally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V-4AnJpoSM

However Nickel Hydrazine Nitrate NHN looks like a nice option too. Is it very commonly used/made?? If not why not?

[Edited on 10-7-2013 by golfpro]
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[*] posted on 9-7-2013 at 16:25


It means you cannot count on it working properly. Too many variables to take into account. I never liked the idea of a charge failing and having to go fetch it. But I don't use peroxides either. To different people unreliable could mean different things. To me it says fails more than half the time, seven trials is not enough to get an idea and even then you said you did different things so it doesn't count.

You have to be absolutely sure you do the same thing every time and then you will see it still fails.




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[*] posted on 9-7-2013 at 16:34


Quote: Originally posted by chemcam  
You have to be absolutely sure you do the same thing every time and then you will see it still fails.


That is enough to not want to use them, but I'd still do it if I could get a detonation 5 out of 7 times, but the charge must sit for a good amount of time before it is retrieved to let the ETN cool etc. and that is where the danger comes in to play.

I still think they are still decent for messin around with ETN in the range of .5g-5g, if it doesn't work, don't go near it for a little bit, the first minute is critical, after it cools for 45mins, it's the equivelant of walking up to any room temp ETN. I even make something the equivelant of a legal firecracker salute, only a bit louder and cooler sounding, it's about .3g of ETN.

Cam, what are your thoughts on NHN as primary??? Have you made it?? The challenge with that is the hydrazine, but then hydrazine is needed for sodium azide of course.
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[*] posted on 9-7-2013 at 16:48


Yeah but if it doesn't detonate you should watch it the whole time so no unsuspecting people get...damaged..

By NHN you must mean nickel hydrazine nitrate? I have no experience with it but if I had more hydrazine I would probably go the azide route. Actually, I like to experiment with all types of new energetics I probably would try to make it once but for practicality I still think lead azide possibly sensitized with lead styphnate depending on application.

I still question whether it goes high order or not.




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[*] posted on 9-7-2013 at 17:34


Whether or not the heatshocked material goes high order? I don't know, It'd be cool to find out. Nickel Hydrazine Nitrate yes. I read it has very low friction and shock sensitivity but still good enough heat sensitivity (flame). Not to mention, you only need Nickel Nitrate and Hydrazine or H-Sulfate for the reaction. So much easier than any Azide. It's an "exotic" though for some reason which immediately tells me it is not so much effective.

I'm not going to make caps with two different primaries and the base charge, like LA and SA-DS primer as some do, I don't have the time and devotion for that. I'd be interested in 600mg base charge, ETN or RDX and then 100-300mg of decent heat sensitive primary, like LA or NHN.

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[*] posted on 13-9-2014 at 19:51


Detonator type NPED based ETN obviously exists. It was developed in the Laboratory of Liptakov patented and patent-pending 12.March 2014 is still ongoing. Therefore it can not disclose the details. What I can disclose is this: It's hollow tube without baffles and without caps. It is filled with exactly that way mixtures ETN, NC3, AP. The detonator contains no additional chemicals. Only electric initiation point. I can not write more, I'm sorry.
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[*] posted on 14-9-2014 at 10:01


sodium azide is readily available in air bags.
junk yards in the US love to get rid of them.
They are basically detonators already.
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[*] posted on 14-9-2014 at 10:53


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Detonator type NPED based ETN obviously exists. It was developed in the Laboratory of Liptakov patented and patent-pending 12.March 2014 is still ongoing. Therefore it can not disclose the details. What I can disclose is this: It's hollow tube without baffles and without caps. It is filled with exactly that way mixtures ETN, NC3, AP. The detonator contains no additional chemicals. Only electric initiation point. I can not write more, I'm sorry.
LL


Actually you can disclose details of patents in application. Since you've already filed for the patent you've established a verifiable date showing you were the original inventor. We, the would-be intellectual property theives, would be expected to show evidence of 'our' idea prior to the date you filed the patent in order to claim it was 'our' idea. This is why so many products are advertised as patent-pending.
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[*] posted on 14-9-2014 at 11:37
ETN -NPED


I understand. NPED works. But: the system still has a high percentage of failure. This is the problem of (almost all) NPED systems. Ongoing completion research. This is a normal procedure. Everyone knows that thermonuclear fusion works. However, there is not a electrical power station for normal people. Another thing: Sciencemadness is monitored by government agencies around the world. Laboratory of Liptakov will showcase all the results of years of research. Strong detonator and priming charge is the key to the initiation of tertiary explosives. LL will not support easy (very easy) to construct IED.
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[Edited on 15-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

[Edited on 15-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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[*] posted on 2-10-2014 at 23:19
NPED


This is the reliable detonator type NPED. But there is a fundamental problem. It has a large delay. A structure is complicated.

nped_nobel.jpg - 213kB

[Edited on 3-10-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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[*] posted on 3-10-2014 at 00:38


Have you got measurements of the firing delay due to the red thermite heat mixture in the firing train? If you are able to regulate it as desired, and these are manufactured in a uniform manner- it's not a problem. It's a feature!



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[*] posted on 3-10-2014 at 01:28



Are exploding bridge wire detonators usable for this type of thing.
There are threads on them here.




https://www.scribd.com/doc/13655464/Non-Primary-Explosive-De...



[Edited on 3-10-2014 by jock88]
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[*] posted on 3-10-2014 at 03:35
NPED


Bert, the patent is not a word about the delay. That is strange. If the delay is very small (do not know) there is a good guide to safe and reliable detonator. Not so simple.
Jock 88: I recommend you read in detail the entire patent. Others also, than come to reflect and respond.
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[*] posted on 4-10-2014 at 20:08


I knew someone would eventually come along who wished to invest time in attempting to improve NPED. NPED is/was close to being good, I'd stick with a traditional cap w/ primary explosive for reliability.

I have seen models of NPED's before, although never as complex as this one, this looks like a refined/tuned-up version of basic NPED diagrams I have seen before.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by Turner]




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[*] posted on 5-10-2014 at 11:23


Turner, Yeah NPED's work, which is why it only needs refined for reliability.

LL, what was your thinking for the reinforced PETN portion?
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[*] posted on 5-10-2014 at 13:16
NPED


The steel small cup has a wall thickness of 0.6 mm. The important thing in patent .: PETN and RDX containing catalysts. These enable (speed up) transient DDT.
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[*] posted on 5-10-2014 at 14:21


I noticed the wax but I assumed it was binder. By catalyst are you really implying a sensitizer? What did you use?
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[*] posted on 5-10-2014 at 16:55


Wouldn't MHN be a good candidate for this type of system?It has been said that It is on the verge of being a primary explosive itself and is pretty powerful to boot. Perhaps in combined with a PETN base it could work well.



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[*] posted on 6-10-2014 at 09:25
NPED


Try MHN and PETN. Write if it works. (like NPED) It will be a great benefit to the S-madness. Engineers at the Nobel Lab. are not fools. Read the patent...No: 5385098-1. Everybody......Compulsory. Who will learn everything (from patent), will know the composition of the catalysts. A not invent nonsense. A detonator can construct NPED. Reliable.
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[*] posted on 7-10-2014 at 07:20


I'm sure MHN is near best for NPED, but I don't trust it's stability as much as LA. BTW sorry for not being active, I'm working toward a carrier beginning now.
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