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PHILOU Zrealone
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TAC(u)P not TACN!
Organic perchlorate of amines like:
-methylamine perchlorate
-ethylene diamine diperchlorate
-hexamine diperchlorate
And if you use common sense and a little imagination...
-dinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-trinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2-nitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4-dinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4,6-trinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-dinitroquinoline perchlorate
-hydrazino-tetrazole perchlorate
-aminoguanidine perchlorate
-diaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-triaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-biguanidine diperchlorate
-propan-triamine triperchlorate
-butan-tetramine tetraperchlorate
-diethylentriamine triperchlorate
-triethylentetramine tetraperchlorate
-tetraethylenpentamine pentaperchlorate
...
-piperazine diperchlorate
-DABCO diperchlorate
-Tetramethylamine perchlorate
...
[Edited on 8-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Nice picture-tables 
Could you translate the heads of columns from the tables into English?
I can guess 90% what it means, but I prefer to be 100% sure. 
Strange language...
Chloristan(ù) why not Perchloristan(ù)?
Chlorates or perchlorates?
Chlorates would be aswel very sensitive probably even more prompt to D2D...
"kyselina pikrová (pro srovnáni)"= picric acid (for comparison) 
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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specialactivitieSK
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Nice List THX. These seem to me very exotic. Which one would go to produce first through HCL and then through NaClO4.
-propan-triamine triperchlorate
-butan-tetramine tetraperchlorate
-diethylentriamine triperchlorate
-triethylentetramine tetraperchlorate
-tetraethylenpentamine pentaperchlorate
...
-piperazine diperchlorate
-DABCO diperchlorate
-Tetramethylamine perchlorate
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Yes some are exotic but into the reach of hobby chemist or chemist with some acces to chems.
Some perchlorates are quite unsoluble but others are very hygroscopic...same applies for organic amines.
N2H5ClO4 for example is very hygroscopic much more than N2H5NO3.
So the concept of
Amine.HCl + NaClO4 --> Amine.HClO4 + HCl
might aswel be counterside/counterproductive...
Amine.HCl + NaClO4 <==--> Amine.HClO4 + HCl
I would go for Amine.H2CO3 (carbonate), Amine.H2O (hydroxyde) or Amine (free base) + HClO4 directly.
In those last two:
-the products must be freezing cold and the neutralization (that produces a lot of heat) must be carried out very slowly
-or for the second (into water/as hydrate or hydroxyde) quite diluted --> then water must be driven out by evaporation/mild heating/dessicator.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Ah yes also:
CH3-NH-NH2 perchlorate
CH3-NH-NH-CH3 diperchlorate
H2N-NH-CH2-CH2-NH-NH2 diperchlorate
(CH3)2N-OH perchlorate
HO-N(-CH2-CH2-)2N-OH diperchlorate
H2N-N(-CH2-CH2-)2N-NH2 diperchlorate
...
The field is as large as your imagination.
(Edit add)
CH3-NHOH perchlorate
CH3-O-NH2 perchlorate
HONH-CH2-CH2-NHOH diperchlorate
H2N-O-CH2-CH2-O-NH2 diperchlorate
(CH3-)3N=O perchlorate
DABCO di-N-oxyde diperchlorate
Pentaerythritamine C(-CH2-NH2)4 tetraperchlorate
Pentaerythrithydrazine C(-CH2-NH-NH2)4 tetraperchlorate
Pentaerythrit-N-hydroxylamine C(-CH2-NHOH)4 tetraperchlorate
Pentaerythrit-O-hydroxylamine C(-CH2-O-NH2)4 tetraperchlorate
[Edited on 10-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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(CH3)2N-NH2 perchlorate from (CH3)N-N=O or (CH3)2N-NO2 reduction
And maybe
(CH3)2N-N(CH3)2 diperchlorate
Edit add:
H2N-CN4C-NH2 diperchlorate (diaminotetrazine)
H2N-NH-CN4C-NH-NH2 diperchlorate (dihydrazinotetrazine)
[Edited on 10-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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With successful was tested a new composition in system NPED. Condition is perfect pure ETN against reaction with permanganate. Aluminium was bright,
color type silver. Permanganate is necessary milled on 0,05 mm dry, or under acetone. After adding Alu, mixed under acetone. As last is added ETN.
Arises porridge, evaporate acetone and from it arises grain. On sieve 2x2 mm is separation for filling DDT mix grain 1-2 mm. For output segment is
possible use pure ETN for highest brizance or same DDT mix, but from fine grain from separation procedure. DDT mix is drying to max. 40 Celsius on
inert surface. ...... ......Dr.
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nitro-genes
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Interesting find, how does the finished composition burn when unconfined? Is there a certain mass where it can make DDT unconfined? Don't have much
experience with permanganate, though didn't KMnO4 with alcohols produce hypergolic reaction? Have you tested how KMnO4 + erythitol (+ aluminium)
behaves, or the finished composition containing ETN during storage, maybe with slight heating? Would also be interesting if one of the more stable
manganese oxides could produce the same effect, maybe Mn2+ would also be effective in producing DDT....
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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NPED
Well, important question. Mix is stabile at 70 - 80 C (over melting point 61 C ) exposition 10 minute. Nothing changes. Longer time exposition was
not tested. After cooling on 15 C arises middle solid agglomerates. On air the heap 0,5 g burned similarly speed is as nitrocellulose with sparkles
effect. Pure ETN has self burning, but for this purpose slowly. Is thus necessary use next, different fuel - oxidizer. Usually 20 - 30 % adding.
Basic catalyser (for DDT) and auxiliary fuel is Alu powder 10 - 15%. As auxiliary oxidizer is NH4ClO4 and now even KMnO4 10 - 15%. Simply: We
needed basically ETN with his detonation properties. And some flashpowder, which force such mix into detonation in close solid space. It is all.
Experiences say, that oxygen balance near zero is you at nothing. Is needed try it. Estimate that will worked for example Pb304 + Al. And much next
flashpowders, which are compatible with ETN. All components must be mixed near a molecular level. KMnO4 is very soluble in acetone same as ETN.
NH4ClO4 not, but worked also. It is only research, Indeed, like almost everything here....
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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But the last tests show that KMnO4 + ETN not compatible for prolonged periods. Respectively, all worked only 24 hours after mixing. During two days
reduced function of DDT reliability of 50%. Well, thats research. Not all is perfect.
It is only find, observation of this phenomenon..........LL
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nitro-genes
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Understand it is just interest, was mainly curious how the composition would behave unconfined when accidentally ignited by friction or something.
Teflpon powder might also be interesting, or producing spherical particles of ETN in water, and coating them with the priming mix afterwards.
[Edited on 27-1-2017 by nitro-genes]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Well, important idea, coating ETN particles with some compatible and fast burning mixture. Maybe try it. Thanks, .........LL
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Chisholm
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What about a method to generate the primary explosive in-situ? Nichrome or other hot-wire resistor could be coated with a blob of lead solder and
pressed up against picric or styphnic acid (perhaps with a thin coating of nitrocellulose lacquer over the solder to prevent direct contact until heat
is applied).
The current would heat up the solder, which would then contact the picric or styphnic acid and form the lead salt, which should quickly explode from
the heat.
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Melgar
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Wouldn't that fall outside the realm of being an NPED though? And wouldn't there be preferential conduction through the solder rather than the
nichrome, essentially shorting it out?
Anyway, this thread gives me a certain amount of nostalgia. I remember back when not many users here believed me that this was happening with pure ETN, now there's all this research going into using this phenomenon to create
safer high-explosive devices.
I'm not sure if anyone ever tried the thermite method, though it'd need to be ignited, probably with flash powder, in which case there wouldn't be a
need for the thermite. What about a mixture in a high-boiling matrix that's solid initially, but melts, then boils due to the reaction heat? The
matrix (when liquid at boiling point) would keep the reaction at a consistent temperature until it all boils away, at which point it'd go into thermal
runaway, and heat up mostly uniformly. Of course, it'd be enclosed in a thin aluminum tube.
The only thing that I've actually done this with was a mixture of lithium metal and iodine that hadn't fully reacted. Adding water caused it to boil
quite vigorously until the water was gone, at which point, the entire solid mass got red hot all at once and cracked the pyrex vial it was in, then
caught fire with a brilliant red flame. Obviously this is nowhere near stable enough to initiate a detonation, but there are certainly plenty of
similar reactions out there, I just can't think of any good ones off the top of my head.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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steel tube
Much attempts show, that solid cavity, especially for research is base of successful. Thus cavity cca 6 mm, from steel, wall 1,5 mm. And from this
base is possible tested ETN with 20 50% of anything. Thermites, nitrocelluloses, perchlorates, magnesium, aluminium. And maybe of all entire together
or only one from it.The basic a key is over pressure. And neither magic or incredible composition in paper tube. Dr.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  | | Much attempts show, that solid cavity, especially for research is base of successful. Thus cavity cca 6 mm, from steel, wall 1,5 mm. And from this
base is possible tested ETN with 20 50% of anything. Thermites, nitrocelluloses, perchlorates, magnesium, aluminium. And maybe of all entire together
or only one from it.The basic a key is over pressure. And neither magic or incredible composition in paper tube. Dr. |
Yes no magic...;-)
The harder the external container of the initiator...the higher the local confinement and thus a bubble of transitory higer density, higher
deflagration/detonation pressure and faster velocity of deflagration/detonation --> thus easier D2D and detonation wave propagation to a secondary.
Even if the container only resist a few micro-seconds..once the shockwave at full power is passed through it is already initiating the secondary
charge...not looking back to his original destroyed house ;-)
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Haha... Destroyed garage is not important. More importantly is successful D2D.
Behind an any price. And it is in basically science madness. One from his an page. ...:-)
Dr.
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Rocinante
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Has anyone tried to heat shock ETN in a 10 cm long and about 8 mm diameter tube, 5-6 g? Maybe your heat shock attempts failed due to short distance.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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NPED detonator
Well...this Thread is about NPED detonator. Usually maximal up to 1g EM total. Theme about NPED small grenade is also interest, of course...
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Rocinante
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Yep, it would be a beast. https://youtu.be/bZ6BsG7Gu7U?t=51s Still tranportable, without problems. You could put it in several plastic boxes with several kg of some inert
powder, no prob.
Of course, the more you have the more fun you'll experience.
Has anyone heard about accidental detonation ETN from friction or impact?
[Edited on 22-12-2017 by Rocinante]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Best and most simple detonator is ETN + SADS. Because who has ETN has also HNO3. For SADS you need 10% HNO3 even only. Is Silver powder expensive for
someone? Cigarettes and alcohol and your health are expensive. Silver not. I know that is not NPED theme, but using huge amount ETN in metal cavity,
only for D2D effect is madness and not science.
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Rocinante
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paper or plastic, not metal.. just very long
I've heard that some poeple had problems with SADS not being stable inside the caps, leading to ignition failure.. is that true? Or how likely it is?
I mean like chlorides from the tube...
[Edited on 1-1-2018 by Rocinante]
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Rosco Bodine
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| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone |
TAC(u)P not TACN!
Organic perchlorate of amines like:
-methylamine perchlorate
-ethylene diamine diperchlorate
-hexamine diperchlorate
And if you use common sense and a little imagination...
-dinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-trinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2-nitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4-dinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4,6-trinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-dinitroquinoline perchlorate
-hydrazino-tetrazole perchlorate
-aminoguanidine perchlorate
-diaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-triaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-biguanidine diperchlorate
-propan-triamine triperchlorate
-butan-tetramine tetraperchlorate
-diethylentriamine triperchlorate
-triethylentetramine tetraperchlorate
-tetraethylenpentamine pentaperchlorate
...
-piperazine diperchlorate
-DABCO diperchlorate
-Tetramethylamine perchlorate
...
[Edited on 8-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone] |
The complexed Copper perchlorate that was a mix of TACP with a hexamine adduct TACP is an idea that might be improved by an alternative to hexamine.
Glycine (aminoacetic acid) complexes copper perchlorate.
Glycine also forms chelates and adducts and complex salts.
Methylamine can also displace and replace half the complex ammonia from a tetra ammonium copper perchlorate.
Glycine and Methylamine could either one be used similarly as is hexamine used to add a fuel component and adjust to oxygen balance the surplus oxygen
of TACP alone.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Thanks Rosco for incredible list of chemical substances. That all can exist? Right page of science madness. Will there takes a few years, than some
peoples will use some an substances from Rosco list. Again I am repeated here, but: Basic od system Berta is solid cavity, when output segment has
high density. Usually 0,3g in diameter 6 mm. And starting segment with low density, grain stucture, where is insert hot wire. Usually 0,7g. As the
plug, can be classic black powder 0,1g, glue, epoxy or even nothing. And works also. Basic EM is described above. Tetraamine copper perchlorate -
TeACP with an compatabile fuel. HMTA, glycine or some substance from Rosco List. Results: 4 years of testing. 1500 detonators. And 10 entire fingers .
......Dr.
[Edited on 12-1-2018 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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Rosco Bodine
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That list was from PHILOU
The glycine should form a compound with copper perchlorate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwUqYtQzAt4
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=68004&...
I see you already know about the glycinate complex
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=75315
I saw it mentioned somewhere that betaine, TMG also complexes copper perchlorate
I find listings for a tetrabetaine diperchlorate
https://books.google.com/books?id=h1D7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA183&...
Attachment: boussingault-s-mixed-copper-ii-glycinate-nitrate.pdf (232kB)
This file has been downloaded 448 times
Anyway the interesting possibility given the report that methylamine will displace half the ammonia from a tetra ammonium complexed copper, it may
likewise be possible that other amines such as glycine, betaine, hexamine may also displace and replace part of the 4 complexing ammonias and give a
mixed complex. Such a scheme could be used to adjust the oxygen balance of TACP where the necessary OB may be achieved by modifying some of the TACP
with the higher amines which will provide added fuel.
[Edited on 1/13/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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