Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2    4    6
Author: Subject: NPED detonator
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 18-7-2015 at 09:33
tests ETN


You do not know how to distinguish deflagration from detonation? But PHILOU right here above wrote now it :-)
For 2g ETN 7x7mm is it 3mm steel plate. And clear hole 10x10mm. It is full detonation. If will be only valley, it is not full detonation. Dr. Liptakov
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2880
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic

[*] posted on 19-7-2015 at 04:03


Quote: Originally posted by kecskesajt  
I don't think deflagaration could make a shockwave :D
And wiki says that deflagarion is just burning.

Are you sure? Ah yes Wiki says...but it forgot to mention that: ;)
-Gas explosion is also fast burning and it can blow windows in large areas without acheiving detonation
-Close yourself in a room and light a Pirat-banger...you will be deaf for a while and your ears will be ringing...proof of a shockwave on your eardrums.
-Fireworks fabric can nearly detonate in the event of a fire accident...even if deflagrating devices.




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 19-7-2015 at 09:47


It looks like PHILOU, that we just now hitting a empty grain. Liptakov.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
James Ikanov
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 81
Registered: 12-7-2015
Location: Alaska
Member Is Offline

Mood: Zen

[*] posted on 28-7-2015 at 14:42


This may or may not be relevant, but I've recently taken up an interest in mixtures of "pyro" grade aluminum and ETN crystals. Has anyone attempted to use such a mixture as a detonator? Without any other additives, I mean.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 29-7-2015 at 01:23
NPED


Of course. Here is easy scheme for construction NPED detonator, only with quality aluminium powder, use as for "silver" color. Conditions is no-oxide surface. And 5% NC2 (12,4N) Liptakov.

ETN NPED scheme4.jpg - 83kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
deadlynightshade
Harmless
*




Posts: 7
Registered: 17-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 03:54
safety blasting cap questions


The other day while dealing with the nasty peroxide caps I have to use because azides are to poisonous I'm to lazy to make fulminates and haven't got round to DDNP yet a thought struck me I have all the regents to make both ETN and PETN readily available its just going to cost me some money so mabey I could try out a little idea i have been concocting the idea is to have an ultrasafe blasting cap you know the one we all dream of. Now how I was going to try this is by pressing about 0.9 grams of PETN into an aluminum tube 0.5 grams of ETN on top of that and then 0.2 grams of magnesium powder about 300mesh on top of that initiated by a small charge of bp. Now here are my questions 1 can ETN be detonated by heat alone 2 if so will it achieve a full detonation and lastly do you think this is worth trying or would my time be better spent? All ideas welcome anything to avoid HMTD.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 2745
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 05:12



Quote:

lastly do you think this is worth trying or would my time be better spent?


Your time would be better spent reading the NPED thread. Which I will now merge your question into-

http://www.sciencemadness.org/madscifaq.html#2.1_Board_topic...

Don't start a new thread in EM without either listing/linking your references or giving a good description of experiments you have personally performed

Quote:

It is okay to be ignorant when first arriving and posting. However, you must be willing to make an effort to learn. If you are unable to cite references in support of an idea or as background to your question, the post belongs in Beginnings.


Quote:

If an existing thread covers the topic you're about to post about, post in that thread instead of a new one. It makes it easier for members to keep up with topics of interest. You may need to search before posting if you're unsure whether or not a thread already exists. The search engine is not very powerful and may miss relevant threads, but please make at least a cursory effort.


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
This is the reliable detonator type NPED. But there is a fundamental problem. It has a large delay. A structure is complicated.



[Edited on 3-10-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]




image.jpg - 235kB




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
Threads Merged
18-10-2015 at 05:24
Bert
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 2745
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 08:28


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Of course. Here is easy scheme for construction NPED detonator, only with quality aluminium powder, use as for "silver" color. Conditions is no-oxide surface. And 5% NC2 (12,4N) Liptakov.



Could you specify Aluminum powders by mesh size/microns and particle shape... Flake? Granular? Spheroidal?

How is Aluminum oxide coating removed from your powder? Or do you perhaps specify a particle coated with stearine or similar during milling?

And what is that intriguing thing (initiation device?) coming in from the right side of drawing! Shock tube/Nonel? Fuse? Electrical lead for a high voltage discharge to outer case?



image.jpg - 71kB

[Edited on 18-10-2015 by Bert]




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

View user's profile View All Posts By User
deadlynightshade
Harmless
*




Posts: 7
Registered: 17-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 19:42


I intended to use Mg not Al but here's how I make both. I get aluminium foil for my al powder and stick a piece of paper on either side and gently heat till chared with blow torch then cut into fine pieces and mill for a few days till either 300 or 400 mesh achived the carbon coats the powder and makes it way more reactive I can light this stuff with a bic and it burns quite slowly as for mg I just order that of eBay because its cheaper and less effort than me buying block and drilling shavings to be milled. If any one has better ways I'm open to ideas.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
specialactivitieSK
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 76
Registered: 21-10-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 25-10-2015 at 01:20


What about using miniatures CuO thermite torch with nozzle as the primary initiator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn-MCCZ3O1M



[Edited on 25-10-2015 by specialactivitieSK]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

cool.gif posted on 29-10-2015 at 10:54
Al in Berta



Sorry to be a long time I was not here. For all the people: System Berta is not the nickname Bert, it's a coincidence. Furthermore, Bert questions: type of aluminum is not an essential condition for the entire facility. However, renders, used to be very good quality aluminum p.a. Pure not oxidized. Shaped like a small flat leaves, fine dust.
Among many other tests shows that the basic condition is: The grain Size of 2x2mm and Hard grain. Defined density, or several different densities. According to the diagram. It is absolutely crucial thing. A mixture of DD transfer might look like this: ETN 70, Mg 10, NC2 (NC3) 10, NH4ClO4 10%. Another important question to Bert: No nonel. Only coaxial cable. At the end of 10 mm thin steel wire. Of scourers.
Another mixture of DDT may look like this: ETN 70%, aluminum (any powder) 10%, NC2 10%, Pb304 10%. Basis is: 70% EM, ± 10% NC arises hard grain. And cca 20% for senzibilisers. Needless to look at it in a special mystery. Like super nano aluminum and the like. EM, binder, catalyseur for fast start burning. It is all. Nothing science, nothing madness. Only a few 1000 tests. :cool:
Last update and news on Liptakov channel youtube, of course.
Standard power suply 6V /1A, for instant detonation.

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 30-10-2015 at 00:06


For system NPED / ETN there can be many other transition mixtures. TACP is primary, but no very sensitive. As LA or FHg, or HMTD. Very effective catalyst for ETN transfer is mix with TACP. Such as DDT mixture: ETN 80 (70%), NC2 10%, TACP 10 (20%). This group includes a detonator only 10% diffuse no very sensitive explosives. And it is quite safe for filling. As you can see, aluminum there is not. Or another example: 70% ETN, NC2 10%, NHN 10%. NHN is very stable, Abel test OK, no dissolved in water. This combination will soon be investigated. But production Nickel Hydrazine Nitrate are poisonous. TACP not. For amatheur produce is thus better use TACP. Of course, questions stand his long time stability. How I see, I am only one person, what really tried this system. And I having positive results. You can somebody also. And no only talking about this.... :cool:
Dr. Liptakov
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kecskesajt
National Hazard
****




Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-10-2015 at 00:50


Liptakov:What does the 2 or 3 means in nitrocellulose lacquer?NC2 or NC3
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 30-10-2015 at 06:31
DDT


Its simple. NC2 is nitrocellulose with volume N about 12,4-12,6%. NC3 cca 13-14%. Or original shotgun powder, (with nitroglycerine). Its best for easy prepare mix NC2+NC3 1:1. Volume NC for transfer mix 8-15%. Next: Transfer mix (%) ETN 70, NC2 10, NHN 20 confirmed. 100% detonation. NHN is relatively inert, stabille, Abel test OK. Output segment pure ETN 0,22g/100Kg, tranfer mix 0,24g/35Kg, around ignitor t. mix 0,2g/10 Kg. Inside diameter classic, 6mm. Similarly as on scheme here upstairs. Other conditions same. Coming soon on YT.
Dr. Liptakov
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kecskesajt
National Hazard
****




Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-10-2015 at 08:58


Thanks!
Why are you using so much copper compound?Not enviromental friendly and relatively hard to prepare.(There is a lot of explosive left over in the water)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 30-10-2015 at 12:16


Many explosives is not friendly to the environment. But it's better than compounds of lead, mercury, nickel, and more. And here is a detailed procedure for hybrid detonator ETN - NHN. Also poisonous. But it works...:cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKrH350yIgI
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kecskesajt
National Hazard
****




Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 30-10-2015 at 22:18


Subsrcibed for your channel a few months ago! Great videos, you could have much work in it.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gargamel
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 166
Registered: 9-3-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 03:32


LL, I see you went down from 8mm to 6mm for system Berta.

For ETN this works fine, no doubt. I used it with success in 5/7mm Brass pipe, but the brass is hard to cut for series production.

But how about NHN and TACP, will they work in such small diameter too?



Quote:

very good quality aluminum p.a. Pure not oxidized. Shaped like a small flat leaves, fine dust.


An oxymoron.

As a pyro guy I'd say dark stuff is superior. But this is oxidized of course - only about 85% Al, the rest is oxide.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 07:46
NHN


Well, in today video is both systems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1m9zIed46Q
Pure NHN do it problems. But TACP have transfer without problems. CHP is more sensitive, but many attempts was making with TACP, without CHP. And works it always. In dia. 6mm, of course. Liptakov.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 2745
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 09:48


Aluminum is second only to charcoal in the huge variety of effects available from different process/particle size of a material-

Here, a brief explanation:

http://www.jpyro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Kos-220-228....




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gargamel
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 166
Registered: 9-3-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 12:20


@LL:

Could you say something about your copper pipe?

Is it rather soft? Because there are hard on soft copper alloys.

I wonder if the softer ones are good enough because cutting is easier of course.


And that sleeve - do you find it's necessary? I pressed a lot of caps with less strong aluminium tubes and got my stuff to 1,6g/cm³ without bulges. Copper is even stronger...

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 14:35
Cu


Well. Any copper tube is good. Soft or hard, or steel or brass. Even the paper. The paper was tested on the inner diameter of 8 mm, 12 mm surface. Thus, the wall of 2mm. Full detonations to target steel plate 3mm hole 8-9 mm. But no always. Sometime failed. Therefore, it is much better to use a metal, Fe, Cu. Heavy metal puts a good dynamic resistance in process of detonation. It is important. Aluminum not. Paper not. Plastic material not. It says a several years of experience.
Liptakov.......:cool:
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 2745
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 18:11


Flake Aluminum is what LL seems to describe, but the very bright silver colored paint grade Aluminum is usually coated with stearin in my experience- Which may be easily washed off with a few rinsings with suitable fast drying anhydrous solvents to increase speed of reaction. But it will be surface oxidized!

Is no such thing as "Aluminum powder without oxide coating", unless milled or blown in an inert atmosphere or under hard vacuum, and after always always handled similarly.



LL- There are many incongruous or unlikely units of SI measurements in answer to my recent questions, is it possible you sometimes meant to write um or nm and post has been auto corrected to mm?!

Perhaps spelling out fully all terms and chemical names once when first mentioned, with associated abreviation to be used after would make it easier to understand some of the descriptions as well. Or it may just be I'm too tired to get these from context.




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1071
Registered: 2-9-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: cool.gif

[*] posted on 31-10-2015 at 23:33


I'm not sure I understand, but: For a variety of patents, it is clear that: The most effective is aluminum, which is used as a pigment for aluminum paint color. Most effective for ammonium nitrate composition. I do not know if it is on the surface (my aluminum) stearin or not. For the construction of ETN-NPED is good to use aluminum flake-color. No use German dark, dark India and spherical. It is my experience. But: ETN-NPED works well with other ingredients than aluminum. Basical of all is big grain for transfer mix. And his density, of course. Liptakov.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gargamel
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 166
Registered: 9-3-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1-11-2015 at 04:01


I think it's clear that we want the fastest possible deflagration in this case.

And that means dark Al is the way to go, oxide layer or not.
Any flashpowder kid knows that the "bright" paint grade stuff sucks for that matter.

That's my opinion.


On the other hand, maybe the aluminium acts primarily as a catalyst and only secondary as a fuel?
In the past there was some discussion that ETN detonated because it had contact to aluminium foil.

In this case the non oxidized paint grade stuff would of course be superiour.



@LL:
Did you wash the stearine cover from your paint grade Al?

And how about your pressing sleeve - this thing you put your cap in while pressing.
Do you really need that when using a strong pipe like the thick copper?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2    4    6

  Go To Top