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Author: Subject: NPED detonator
PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 8-11-2016 at 14:25


Quote: Originally posted by specialactivitieSK  
Which organic perchlorate would be usable in the system DDT BERTA instead TACN ?

[Edited on 8-11-2016 by specialactivitieSK]

TAC(u)P not TACN!

Organic perchlorate of amines like:
-methylamine perchlorate
-ethylene diamine diperchlorate
-hexamine diperchlorate

And if you use common sense and a little imagination...
-dinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-trinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2-nitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4-dinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4,6-trinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-dinitroquinoline perchlorate
-hydrazino-tetrazole perchlorate
-aminoguanidine perchlorate
-diaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-triaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-biguanidine diperchlorate
-propan-triamine triperchlorate
-butan-tetramine tetraperchlorate
-diethylentriamine triperchlorate
-triethylentetramine tetraperchlorate
-tetraethylenpentamine pentaperchlorate
...
-piperazine diperchlorate
-DABCO diperchlorate
-Tetramethylamine perchlorate
...

[Edited on 8-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 8-11-2016 at 15:20


Quote: Originally posted by specialactivitieSK  
organic perchlorates


Nice picture-tables :D
Could you translate the heads of columns from the tables into English?
I can guess 90% what it means, but I prefer to be 100% sure. ;)

Strange language...
Chloristan(ù) why not Perchloristan(ù)?
Chlorates or perchlorates?
Chlorates would be aswel very sensitive probably even more prompt to D2D...

"kyselina pikrová (pro srovnáni)"= picric acid (for comparison) :P




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[*] posted on 9-11-2016 at 00:55



Nice List THX. These seem to me very exotic. Which one would go to produce first through HCL and then through NaClO4.

-propan-triamine triperchlorate
-butan-tetramine tetraperchlorate
-diethylentriamine triperchlorate
-triethylentetramine tetraperchlorate
-tetraethylenpentamine pentaperchlorate
...
-piperazine diperchlorate
-DABCO diperchlorate
-Tetramethylamine perchlorate
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[*] posted on 9-11-2016 at 06:37


Yes some are exotic but into the reach of hobby chemist or chemist with some acces to chems.

Some perchlorates are quite unsoluble but others are very hygroscopic...same applies for organic amines.
N2H5ClO4 for example is very hygroscopic much more than N2H5NO3.

So the concept of
Amine.HCl + NaClO4 --> Amine.HClO4 + HCl
might aswel be counterside/counterproductive...
Amine.HCl + NaClO4 <==--> Amine.HClO4 + HCl

I would go for Amine.H2CO3 (carbonate), Amine.H2O (hydroxyde) or Amine (free base) + HClO4 directly.
In those last two:
-the products must be freezing cold and the neutralization (that produces a lot of heat) must be carried out very slowly
-or for the second (into water/as hydrate or hydroxyde) quite diluted --> then water must be driven out by evaporation/mild heating/dessicator.




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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[*] posted on 9-11-2016 at 06:40


Ah yes also:
CH3-NH-NH2 perchlorate
CH3-NH-NH-CH3 diperchlorate
H2N-NH-CH2-CH2-NH-NH2 diperchlorate
(CH3)2N-OH perchlorate
HO-N(-CH2-CH2-)2N-OH diperchlorate
H2N-N(-CH2-CH2-)2N-NH2 diperchlorate
...

The field is as large as your imagination.

(Edit add)

CH3-NHOH perchlorate
CH3-O-NH2 perchlorate
HONH-CH2-CH2-NHOH diperchlorate
H2N-O-CH2-CH2-O-NH2 diperchlorate
(CH3-)3N=O perchlorate
DABCO di-N-oxyde diperchlorate
Pentaerythritamine C(-CH2-NH2)4 tetraperchlorate
Pentaerythrithydrazine C(-CH2-NH-NH2)4 tetraperchlorate
Pentaerythrit-N-hydroxylamine C(-CH2-NHOH)4 tetraperchlorate
Pentaerythrit-O-hydroxylamine C(-CH2-O-NH2)4 tetraperchlorate

[Edited on 10-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 10-11-2016 at 08:10


(CH3)2N-NH2 perchlorate from (CH3)N-N=O or (CH3)2N-NO2 reduction

And maybe
(CH3)2N-N(CH3)2 diperchlorate

Edit add:
H2N-CN4C-NH2 diperchlorate (diaminotetrazine)
H2N-NH-CN4C-NH-NH2 diperchlorate (dihydrazinotetrazine)

[Edited on 10-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 24-1-2017 at 13:36


With successful was tested a new composition in system NPED. Condition is perfect pure ETN against reaction with permanganate. Aluminium was bright, color type silver. Permanganate is necessary milled on 0,05 mm dry, or under acetone. After adding Alu, mixed under acetone. As last is added ETN. Arises porridge, evaporate acetone and from it arises grain. On sieve 2x2 mm is separation for filling DDT mix grain 1-2 mm. For output segment is possible use pure ETN for highest brizance or same DDT mix, but from fine grain from separation procedure. DDT mix is drying to max. 40 Celsius on inert surface. ......:cool:......Dr.

ETN NPED permanganate.jpg - 115kB




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[*] posted on 25-1-2017 at 08:00


Interesting find, how does the finished composition burn when unconfined? Is there a certain mass where it can make DDT unconfined? Don't have much experience with permanganate, though didn't KMnO4 with alcohols produce hypergolic reaction? Have you tested how KMnO4 + erythitol (+ aluminium) behaves, or the finished composition containing ETN during storage, maybe with slight heating? Would also be interesting if one of the more stable manganese oxides could produce the same effect, maybe Mn2+ would also be effective in producing DDT....
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[*] posted on 25-1-2017 at 10:51
NPED


Well, important question. Mix is stabile at 70 - 80 C (over melting point 61 C ) exposition 10 minute. Nothing changes. Longer time exposition was not tested. After cooling on 15 C arises middle solid agglomerates. On air the heap 0,5 g burned similarly speed is as nitrocellulose with sparkles effect. Pure ETN has self burning, but for this purpose slowly. Is thus necessary use next, different fuel - oxidizer. Usually 20 - 30 % adding. Basic catalyser (for DDT) and auxiliary fuel is Alu powder 10 - 15%. As auxiliary oxidizer is NH4ClO4 and now even KMnO4 10 - 15%. Simply: We needed basically ETN with his detonation properties. And some flashpowder, which force such mix into detonation in close solid space. It is all.
Experiences say, that oxygen balance near zero is you at nothing. Is needed try it. Estimate that will worked for example Pb304 + Al. And much next flashpowders, which are compatible with ETN. All components must be mixed near a molecular level. KMnO4 is very soluble in acetone same as ETN. NH4ClO4 not, but worked also. It is only research, Indeed, like almost everything here....:cool:




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[*] posted on 26-1-2017 at 12:18


But the last tests show that KMnO4 + ETN not compatible for prolonged periods. Respectively, all worked only 24 hours after mixing. During two days reduced function of DDT reliability of 50%. Well, thats research. Not all is perfect.
It is only find, observation of this phenomenon......:cool:....LL




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[*] posted on 26-1-2017 at 16:06


Understand it is just interest, was mainly curious how the composition would behave unconfined when accidentally ignited by friction or something.:)

Teflpon powder might also be interesting, or producing spherical particles of ETN in water, and coating them with the priming mix afterwards.

[Edited on 27-1-2017 by nitro-genes]
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[*] posted on 27-1-2017 at 02:03


Well, important idea, coating ETN particles with some compatible and fast burning mixture. Maybe try it. Thanks, ....:cool:.....LL



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[*] posted on 19-5-2017 at 07:55


What about a method to generate the primary explosive in-situ? Nichrome or other hot-wire resistor could be coated with a blob of lead solder and pressed up against picric or styphnic acid (perhaps with a thin coating of nitrocellulose lacquer over the solder to prevent direct contact until heat is applied).

The current would heat up the solder, which would then contact the picric or styphnic acid and form the lead salt, which should quickly explode from the heat.
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[*] posted on 23-6-2017 at 12:41


Wouldn't that fall outside the realm of being an NPED though? And wouldn't there be preferential conduction through the solder rather than the nichrome, essentially shorting it out?

Anyway, this thread gives me a certain amount of nostalgia. I remember back when not many users here believed me that this was happening with pure ETN, now there's all this research going into using this phenomenon to create safer high-explosive devices.

I'm not sure if anyone ever tried the thermite method, though it'd need to be ignited, probably with flash powder, in which case there wouldn't be a need for the thermite. What about a mixture in a high-boiling matrix that's solid initially, but melts, then boils due to the reaction heat? The matrix (when liquid at boiling point) would keep the reaction at a consistent temperature until it all boils away, at which point it'd go into thermal runaway, and heat up mostly uniformly. Of course, it'd be enclosed in a thin aluminum tube.

The only thing that I've actually done this with was a mixture of lithium metal and iodine that hadn't fully reacted. Adding water caused it to boil quite vigorously until the water was gone, at which point, the entire solid mass got red hot all at once and cracked the pyrex vial it was in, then caught fire with a brilliant red flame. Obviously this is nowhere near stable enough to initiate a detonation, but there are certainly plenty of similar reactions out there, I just can't think of any good ones off the top of my head.




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[*] posted on 29-6-2017 at 12:17
steel tube


Much attempts show, that solid cavity, especially for research is base of successful. Thus cavity cca 6 mm, from steel, wall 1,5 mm. And from this base is possible tested ETN with 20 50% of anything. Thermites, nitrocelluloses, perchlorates, magnesium, aluminium. And maybe of all entire together or only one from it.The basic a key is over pressure. And neither magic or incredible composition in paper tube. Dr.



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[*] posted on 1-7-2017 at 02:34


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Much attempts show, that solid cavity, especially for research is base of successful. Thus cavity cca 6 mm, from steel, wall 1,5 mm. And from this base is possible tested ETN with 20 50% of anything. Thermites, nitrocelluloses, perchlorates, magnesium, aluminium. And maybe of all entire together or only one from it.The basic a key is over pressure. And neither magic or incredible composition in paper tube. Dr.

Yes no magic...;-)

The harder the external container of the initiator...the higher the local confinement and thus a bubble of transitory higer density, higher deflagration/detonation pressure and faster velocity of deflagration/detonation --> thus easier D2D and detonation wave propagation to a secondary.

Even if the container only resist a few micro-seconds..once the shockwave at full power is passed through it is already initiating the secondary charge...not looking back to his original destroyed house ;-)




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[*] posted on 1-7-2017 at 09:49


Haha... Destroyed garage is not important. More importantly is successful D2D.
Behind an any price. And it is in basically science madness. One from his an page. ...:-)
Dr.




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[*] posted on 15-12-2017 at 08:35


Has anyone tried to heat shock ETN in a 10 cm long and about 8 mm diameter tube, 5-6 g? Maybe your heat shock attempts failed due to short distance.
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[*] posted on 21-12-2017 at 10:40
NPED detonator


Well...this Thread is about NPED detonator. Usually maximal up to 1g EM total. Theme about NPED small grenade is also interest, of course...:cool:



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[*] posted on 21-12-2017 at 11:44


Yep, it would be a beast. https://youtu.be/bZ6BsG7Gu7U?t=51s Still tranportable, without problems. You could put it in several plastic boxes with several kg of some inert powder, no prob.

Of course, the more you have the more fun you'll experience.

Has anyone heard about accidental detonation ETN from friction or impact?

[Edited on 22-12-2017 by Rocinante]
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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 04:31


Best and most simple detonator is ETN + SADS. Because who has ETN has also HNO3. For SADS you need 10% HNO3 even only. Is Silver powder expensive for someone? Cigarettes and alcohol and your health are expensive. Silver not. I know that is not NPED theme, but using huge amount ETN in metal cavity, only for D2D effect is madness and not science.



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[*] posted on 1-1-2018 at 04:54


paper or plastic, not metal.. just very long

I've heard that some poeple had problems with SADS not being stable inside the caps, leading to ignition failure.. is that true? Or how likely it is? I mean like chlorides from the tube...

[Edited on 1-1-2018 by Rocinante]
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[*] posted on 11-1-2018 at 23:43


Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  
Quote: Originally posted by specialactivitieSK  
Which organic perchlorate would be usable in the system DDT BERTA instead TACN ?

[Edited on 8-11-2016 by specialactivitieSK]

TAC(u)P not TACN!

Organic perchlorate of amines like:
-methylamine perchlorate
-ethylene diamine diperchlorate
-hexamine diperchlorate

And if you use common sense and a little imagination...
-dinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-trinitrophenylhydrazine perchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2-nitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4-dinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-1,3,5-trihydrazino-2,4,6-trinitrobenzene-triperchlorate
-dinitroquinoline perchlorate
-hydrazino-tetrazole perchlorate
-aminoguanidine perchlorate
-diaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-triaminoguanidine diperchlorate
-biguanidine diperchlorate
-propan-triamine triperchlorate
-butan-tetramine tetraperchlorate
-diethylentriamine triperchlorate
-triethylentetramine tetraperchlorate
-tetraethylenpentamine pentaperchlorate
...
-piperazine diperchlorate
-DABCO diperchlorate
-Tetramethylamine perchlorate
...

[Edited on 8-11-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]


The complexed Copper perchlorate that was a mix of TACP with a hexamine adduct TACP is an idea that might be improved by an alternative to hexamine.

Glycine (aminoacetic acid) complexes copper perchlorate.

Glycine also forms chelates and adducts and complex salts.

Methylamine can also displace and replace half the complex ammonia from a tetra ammonium copper perchlorate.

Glycine and Methylamine could either one be used similarly as is hexamine used to add a fuel component and adjust to oxygen balance the surplus oxygen of TACP alone.
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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 00:31


Thanks Rosco for incredible list of chemical substances. That all can exist? Right page of science madness. Will there takes a few years, than some peoples will use some an substances from Rosco list. Again I am repeated here, but: Basic od system Berta is solid cavity, when output segment has high density. Usually 0,3g in diameter 6 mm. And starting segment with low density, grain stucture, where is insert hot wire. Usually 0,7g. As the plug, can be classic black powder 0,1g, glue, epoxy or even nothing. And works also. Basic EM is described above. Tetraamine copper perchlorate - TeACP with an compatabile fuel. HMTA, glycine or some substance from Rosco List. Results: 4 years of testing. 1500 detonators. And 10 entire fingers . ...:cool:...Dr.

system Berta 4mm.jpg - 33kB

[Edited on 12-1-2018 by Laboratory of Liptakov]




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[*] posted on 12-1-2018 at 21:59


That list was from PHILOU

The glycine should form a compound with copper perchlorate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwUqYtQzAt4

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=68004&...

I see you already know about the glycinate complex

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=75315

I saw it mentioned somewhere that betaine, TMG also complexes copper perchlorate

I find listings for a tetrabetaine diperchlorate

https://books.google.com/books?id=h1D7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA183&...

Attachment: boussingault-s-mixed-copper-ii-glycinate-nitrate.pdf (232kB)
This file has been downloaded 75 times

Anyway the interesting possibility given the report that methylamine will displace half the ammonia from a tetra ammonium complexed copper, it may likewise be possible that other amines such as glycine, betaine, hexamine may also displace and replace part of the 4 complexing ammonias and give a mixed complex. Such a scheme could be used to adjust the oxygen balance of TACP where the necessary OB may be achieved by modifying some of the TACP with the higher amines which will provide added fuel.

[Edited on 1/13/2018 by Rosco Bodine]
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