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Author: Subject: Trichloride failure
AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 10-7-2013 at 12:01


Quote: Originally posted by chemcam  
I was thinking of doing it with the chloroform layer like plante did in his video. Would that make it quite a bit safer or is that a myth?

It can not explode if it is diluted enough with chloroform. Still, one should use caution.
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Tdep
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[*] posted on 10-7-2013 at 19:19


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
This describes an insanely dangerous experiment. Do NOT repeat this.


Hey Woelen.
Just so I cover all bases in designing my set up, can you list me a few reasons why that site's set up is so horribly wrong as apposed to a chlorine bubbler?

Is it just the amount it creates? Obviously I have no intentions of moving or storing the substance (as in Meglomania's case, sucking it up with a medicine dropper. Not trying that...)

Or are you saying electrolysis is the only way? Is electrolysis considered safer (maybe 'less dangerous' is a better term here?) because you can easily control the scale of the trichloride? Or is it more to do with the formation of smaller blobs of the chemical as apposed to one large mass?

I hope my speculation hasn't gone too far and I don't come across as a real idiot. I'm glad you let us discuss such a dangerous experiment and I'm thankful for the help with keeping safe.

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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 10-7-2013 at 21:56


Just keep the amounts small, do not have more than tiny amounts in one place. I would not suggest making any more than a milliliter, if you do not plan to have it dissolved in chloroform.

Use a plastic tray or something to catch the reaction solution if the NCl3 drops on the bottom detonate and the glass container shatters, which would cause a spill. In fact, you might want to consider using a plastic cup for the reaction (I do not know if this might interfere with the reaction, though)

It would probably be a good idea to wear thick rubber gloves a thick long sleeve clothing, to help stop the glass shrapnel if there is an accident. I also suggest you keep a small distance (6-12cm) between your hands and the NCl3 at all times. Even a small amount of distance can make a big difference if something goes wrong.
ALWAYS wear protective plastic eye goggles.

NCl3 most often explodes as it is being formed. If you have some crazy idea that you can fill a little test tube with it, you obviously are not understanding the meaning of this post. NCl3 is touch sensitive, it is a very unstable compound !

[Edited on 11-7-2013 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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Variscite
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[*] posted on 10-7-2013 at 22:43


This stuff sounds way too dangerous for me to even think about synthing it. Seems like an interesting compound though, like NI3's less popular brother. Maybe some day...



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[*] posted on 10-7-2013 at 22:54


Good advice! Except

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  

In fact, you might want to consider using a plastic cup for the reaction (I do not know if this might interfere with the reaction, though)

It's the common sense thing to do but NCl3 is destroyed on contact with plastic.

One safety feature idea is having all the glass is in a huge plastic tray so if (when?) the glass shatters any undetonated NCl3 would hit the plastic and be destroyed.

However, a sizable blob of it is most likely going to have a violent reaction with the plastic, which means even more explosions. So maybe it's not a good idea...

But yes. Explosion at any time, even when just forming. Like hell am I using any real expensive glassware for this haha
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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 31-8-2013 at 08:32


found this:
Quote:
Hydrazoic acid is also made by treating nitrogen chloride, NCl3, or an aqueous solution of silver nitrite with hydrazine sulfate.
With sodium hypochlorite and acetic acid, hydrazoic acid furnishes a colourless highly explosive compound, N3Cl.

“Modern Inoraganic Chemistry”, J.W. Mellor, (1912) p551,552


The entry discussed the chemistry of HN3, but happened to mention NCl3. So apparently NCl3 can be reacted with hydrazine to form some HN3, and also the reaction between HOCl and HN3 is analogous to that between HOCl and NH3 when it is forming NCl3, interesting from a chemical perspective.

Obviously, due to the unstable nature of NCl3, these reactions were probably done in a very small scale, and may not be a practical way to prepare HN3.

[Edited on 31-8-2013 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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