| Pages:
1
2 |
Gooferking Science
Hazard to Self
Posts: 97
Registered: 17-7-2013
Location: Somewhere in Kansas, USA...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Halogenated
|
|
Cold fusion power supply - What should I use?
I recently built a cold fusion reactor. A cold fusion reactor is made by using water with an electrolyte and two high heat resistant electrodes. You
start out with a normal electrolysis of water, and once the temperature reaches 100 degrees F, you crank up the power and a plasma arc starts. At
first this will just ignite the hydrogen and make an orange colored light, but once the right conditions are reached the hydrogen atoms will bond
together forming helium, thus a mini sun is created in whatever container you are using. A blue light and lots of energy is put out.
Now for the question. I have seen people use a variac as their power supply, buy I don't have one. I do have a MOT however, but I don't think it puts
out enough amperage. Does anyone have any suggestions on what power supply I should use?
Edit: Thank you all for your replies! Just so you know, I never actually tried this. I understood that it would put out radiation but I didn't know
that it would be enough to kill me. I may be wrong, it might not be blue but I'm colorblind to shades, and have a hard time telling the difference
between colors like blue and purple, green and yellow, orange and red.
[Edited on 16-8-2013 by Gooferking Science]
|
|
|
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Posts: 2114
Registered: 29-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
What evidence do you have of the formation of He? Any evidence of <sup>1</sup>H fusion occuring <em>at all</em>?
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
If you get blue light and a lot of energy, then that is just energy from your power supply. You absolutely 100+ % sure have no nuclear fusion in your
setup.
Getting a plasma can be done with a neon transformer. You can create nice effects, such as Jacob's ladders, but these have nothing to do with fusion.
|
|
|
Dany
Hazard to Others
Posts: 482
Registered: 3-8-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hello, Gooferking Science
It is cool to think that you are able to make a cold fusion in your garage or backyard. But until now there are a big debate about cold fusion. Since
the first publication of a successful cold fusion, no laboratory in the world was able to reproduce the experiment. Don't wast your time and your
money.
Dany.
|
|
|
Varmint
Hazard to Others
Posts: 264
Registered: 30-5-2013
Location: Near Atlanta, GA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
"Atom Smashers" (example: Van De Graaff generators) use hundreds of thousands ( or millions) of volts to accelerate atomic particles. The idea is to
accelerate them, cause collisions with target particles, and analyze the results.
Still, this falls short of the classical definition of fission, you aren't really creating 2 or more lighter elements from the source and target, you
are haphazardly busting them into unpredictable pieces.
The energy for FUSION is much higher, in fact a thermonuclear weapon uses a fission weapon as a means of creating the temperatures and pressures
required to even begin the fusion process. You don't get those temperatures and pressures with ANY low votltage power supply.
I designed a Van De Graaff generator at home, but it uses a store bought dome (I can't do metal spinning at home!), and with the 14 inch dome,
achieves voltages in excess of 450,000 volts. This is just barely enough energy to create radioactive Gold when the spark interacts with Lead.
If I were to run it for weeks, and have the spark hit the same spot, I could concievably create enough radio-active Gold for it to show up on a
counter, but the trouble is, the interaction could strip away an electron one event, add it back the next, and so on, there is no control over it at
the level required to guarantee ANYTHING.
Yes, I know we are supposed to think outside the box, and cold fusion is the preeminant example of this. If we think in terms of only what we know,
cold fusion is dead, never having gotten started.
But here's the positive part: If cold fusion were a reality, there would be tens of thousands of experimenters dying horrible deaths from having
watched the neutrons light up the water with the characteristic blue glow. If you are generating enough NEUTRONS to make the water glow to signal
your success, you have irreversably poisoned yourself with neutrons.
I doesn't work, it can't work, and if it did, you'd need all the protection genuine researchers put in place, or you die. There are no "cold
neutrons" that would make it safe, if you get it working, you die.
DAS
|
|
|
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Posts: 2114
Registered: 29-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
BobD1001 & elementcollector1, if you have nothing to contribute but insults, don't post.
[edit] After reading and considering IrC's comments, I'm reopening this thread. He's right that I shouldn't have locked it in the
first place. I'm pruning out the trash posting, and will remove any such further posts—you have been warned. Thank you,
IrC for your perspective—I hope that you can appreciate that I'm willing to admit and learn from my mistakes.
[Edited on 16.8.13 by bfesser]
|
|
|
IrC
International Hazard
Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline
Mood: Discovering
|
|
Gooferking, do a few simple calculations to determine the repulsive force between two protons separated by say the radius of an electron. Determine in
your cell how close these protons are going to get to each other from the force supplied by your electrical input. Soon you will see there is no
possible way you are producing Helium because the protons that close together are exerting a really mind boggling force between each other. Far more
force than is possible from your electrical input.
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/diycfr/index.htm
I post this link so you can see an example of the power supply used. Possibly it will give you ideas on novel electrolytic cells useful for something
completely unrelated to CF. This is the point of allowing uncensored debate. Ideas for other areas of research come out of these efforts whether or
not there is any hope of you ever achieving CF. In my opinion CF is not something you will ever see in your home lab. Possibly not ever in any other
lab either. Not the point. The beauty of the forum is in these failed experiments and endless debates leading to ideas for something else which you
would have never thought of had you not been working in this area. I can think of several patents I have studied which came from people trying to
achieve CF but failing. My wasted gallons of D2O over the years never gave me fusion but did lead me down other avenues I likely would have never
thought of otherwise.
In any case I for one do not believe you will achieve Helium production and I base that upon thousands of dollars and many hours of pointless
experimentation. However it did lead me into other areas of experimentation and gave me much insight into materials and electrode structures I now use
in my Sonoluminescence experiments.
In the interest of full disclosure yes, watching the movie 'Chain Reaction' gave me the desire to see what is possible on the subject of
Sonoluminescence.
[Edited on 8-16-2013 by IrC]
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
|
|
|
bfesser
|
Thread Opened
15-8-2013 at 17:45 |
bfesser
|
Threads Merged
15-8-2013 at 17:46 |
bfesser
|
Thread Pruned
15-8-2013 at 17:46 |
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
| Quote: | | A blue light and lots of energy is put out. |
You know, I always thought excited hydrogen was purple rather than blue - is that just a different assumption of the same color or are these different
phenomena?
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
IrC
International Hazard
Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline
Mood: Discovering
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  | | Quote: | | A blue light and lots of energy is put out. |
You know, I always thought excited hydrogen was purple rather than blue - is that just a different assumption of the same color or are these different
phenomena? |
Depends upon where in the Balmer series you are.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/HBASE/hyde.html
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/atoms/properties/hspectrum.html
Gooferking Science : "I do have a MOT however, but I don't think it puts out enough amperage."
I shudder when I read this. Around 2KV @ 500 ma? Not enough for a cell full of conductive water using a transformer with no current limiting?
Frightening. I have peppered myself and the walls with glass and scalding water at far lower power levels.
In any case you are not seeing fusion of any type. In fact your approach does not even mimic what virtually all others have done in CF experiments.
Specially prepared Pd is slowly saturated at far lower power levels with deuterium. Yet they still many times have had fairly large and dangerous
explosions. I cannot see how you are going to be around for long if you actually try some of the ideas you have posted here.
Bottom line is this. Years have been spent by probably thousands in this effort. People with vastly greater resources and training. Yet to this day I
cannot find anyone offering a Mr Fusion for sale. This speaks very loudly, if you consider the ultra rich always looking for new ways to profit. By
now one of them would have brought the concept to market.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
|
|
|
zed
International Hazard
Posts: 2277
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord
|
|
Something unexpected does sometimes happen, during the course of heavy water electrolysis with noble metal electrodes. The debate is over exactly
what happens.
Some claim it is fusion, others say it isn't.
The PC term is LENR. Low energy nuclear reaction.
[Edited on 18-8-2013 by zed]
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by zed | Something unexpected does sometimes happen, during the course of heavy water electrolysis with noble metal electrodes. The debate is over exactly
what happens.
Some claim it is fusion, others say it isn't.
The PC term is LENR. Low energy nuclear reaction.
[Edited on 18-8-2013 by zed] |
As few people said, and no one ever managed to repeat it, using the same procedure as the mentioned folks.
That's called "probable lie". People lie to get famous, too. 
In order to debate the inner working of something, you first need to have that "something" proven. Otherwise it looks like you're trying to explain
anatomic characteristics of a bigfoot.
[Edited on 19-8-2013 by Endimion17]
|
|
|
ElectroWin
Hazard to Others
Posts: 224
Registered: 5-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Formation of helium is a hallmark of some of the LENR processes, and formation of copper in Rossi's proton-nickel apparatus is another. what is hard
to figure out, though, is the absence of radioisotopes or gamma rays being produced in both kinds of setups.
I will touch briefly on the Rossi apparatus. Andrea Rossi has unfortunately been quite secretive about his apparatus, and that makes a lot of us
suspicious. But we're living in a climate where the first thing out of many people's mouths is "it must be fraud, i refuse to look at it"; a climate
where the patent office might just refuse to issue a patent in the territory; and where this would certainly expose an inventor to theft of
intellectual property if it turns out the device does work.
So it should be clear to those wanting to pursue LENR that observations are desperately begging for some kind of physical theory to support them. And
yet it should still be possible to ask and demand answers to scientific questions.
Particularly the absence of copper radioisotopes generated is quixotic. Can we not force them to be made by the apparatus?
"Naturally occurring nickel (Ni) is composed of five stable isotopes; 58Ni, 60Ni, 61Ni, 62Ni and 64Ni with 58Ni being the most abundant (68.077%
natural abundance).[1] 58Ni may decay by double beta-plus decay to 58Fe." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_nickel
if we were to construct the Rossi anodes from five versions of isotopically pure, stable nickel, then run the thing for some time, then look at the
copper produced, it seems impossible to me that they should all generate stable copper. I expect some should generate radioisotopes, or stable species
other than copper, or nothing at all.
This is testable, if we can replicate the Rossi apparatus.
[Edited on 2013-8-24 by ElectroWin]
|
|
|
Bezaleel
Hazard to Others
Posts: 444
Registered: 28-2-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: transitional
|
|
Exactly here lies the big problem. From the experiments Rossi published earlier this year, it is clear that the composition of the "fuel rods" is
really kept secret. In addition, the fuel rods were produced by an external company.
|
|
|
ElizabethGreene
Hazard to Others
Posts: 141
Registered: 15-10-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17 | | Quote: Originally posted by zed | Something unexpected does sometimes happen, during the course of heavy water electrolysis with noble metal electrodes. The debate is over exactly
what happens.
Some claim it is fusion, others say it isn't.
<snip>
|
As few people said, and no one ever managed to repeat it, using the same procedure as the mentioned folks.
<snip>
|
The Fleischmann and Pons effect has been reproduced a prodigious number of times. The difficulty is that the repeatability is very poor and
unpredictable. It appears to be something "special" about the electrodes, but the exact secret sauce remains elusive. Have another look at what's
been published, please. The US Navy's work on it is particularly encouraging.
Note: I'm specifically ignoring Mr. Rossi's work as he has chosen to break the "Peer review or it didn't happen" rule.
Back to the original question:
You can make a poor man's Variac by rewinding the MOT core with a new secondary of the same gauge as the primary. As you are winding it, bring off
several new "taps" at various positions in the new secondary. Each will give you a different voltage.
If I remember the original LENR work correctly (it's been years, so please double check) they used a constant voltage variable current supply to load
the palladium electrodes with deuterium. A Google search will give you a prodigious number of schematics if you want to build one of those.
[Edited on 26-8-2013 by ElizabethGreene]
|
|
|
hyfalcon
International Hazard
Posts: 1003
Registered: 29-3-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Coming up with the palladium and heavy water is the fun part.
|
|
|
ElectroWin
Hazard to Others
Posts: 224
Registered: 5-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Bezaleel |
Exactly here lies the big problem. From the experiments Rossi published earlier this year, it is clear that the composition of the "fuel rods" is
really kept secret. In addition, the fuel rods were produced by an external company. |
well, we are told it is nickel. i really doubt chemical composition is a factor, unless crystal configuration is important. can nickel be coaxed into
different crystal forms?
(including at elevated temperatures?) is nickel hydride possibly needed?
so just maybe isotopic purity is significant. what would be the cost of producing a few hundred grams of isotopically pure Ni?
[Edited on 2013-8-27 by ElectroWin]
|
|
|
ElizabethGreene
Hazard to Others
Posts: 141
Registered: 15-10-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ebay! I was able to find both palladium and D2O last time I looked. I haven't pursued it because of cost and lack of knowledge around
calorimetry.
Edit: Just checked, and there is none on ebay now. That's odd.
| Quote: Originally posted by ElectroWin |
well, we are told it is nickel. i really doubt chemical composition is a factor, unless crystal configuration is important. can nickel be coaxed into
different crystal forms?
|
It's quite possible that it's something to do with the crystal structure or an allotrope or possibly some sort of dopant. IIRC he indicated that the
fuel rods were 95%+ isotopic-ally pure, and the most common isotope.[citation needed]
It baffles me why he won't publish. If the science works, he'll earn a Nobel prize and enough money to make Scrooge McDuck's vault look like a piggy
bank.
[Edited on 26-8-2013 by ElizabethGreene]
|
|
|
ElectroWin
Hazard to Others
Posts: 224
Registered: 5-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by ElizabethGreene |
It's quite possible that it's something to do with the crystal structure or an allotrope or possibly some sort of dopant. IIRC he indicated that the
fuel rods were 95%+ isotopic-ally pure, and the most common isotope.[citation needed]
|
ok! this is important.
and i could believe maybe hydrogen is a dopant.
so let's make some anodes from 58Ni > 95% isotopic purity; and doped with 1H in various arrangements and concentrations up to i guess 0.002% by
mass.
[Edited on 2013-8-27 by ElectroWin]
|
|
|
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If there's science at all, and if it works [...]
|
|
|
ElectroWin
Hazard to Others
Posts: 224
Registered: 5-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ok, we get it. Watson doesnt believe in any of this. so then why clutter the discussion? instead, please add useful references.
|
|
|
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by ElectroWin | | ok, we get it. Watson doesnt believe in any of this. so then why clutter the discussion? instead, please add useful references.
|
Clutter? Do you think you have a right to talk about this subject exactly as you want, excluding anybody who
disagrees with you? You do not have such a right here, particularly when the issue is whether there's science here at all.
I looked into this a few years ago, in rather greater depth than, in retrospect, I should have. The most likely scenario with Rossi is that he's an
outright and conscious fraud. There's no actually independent verification of any of his claims, although he's put on a show to try to claim such.
He's made some paranoid defenses about the patent system, and as someone who's spent rather more time than average around that, he's making newbie
claims that you clear up with a first or second meeting with a patent lawyer. This is on top of the extreme secrecy and refusal to disclose. There's
an enormous absence of scientific evidence here, and a lot other social cues that something entirely different is going on.
Useful references, for me, would be proof of fraud, which I think are more likely to exist that experimental evidence in favor of his claims.
|
|
|
ElectroWin
Hazard to Others
Posts: 224
Registered: 5-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Watson, w.r.t Rossi actually i agree with you. couple years ago i saw a plot of the changes in composition of the anode surface from spectral analysis
and saw aluminum in there. and it made me think that he is using nickel-plated aluminum anodes instead of solid nickel, which would account for his
finding copper there, since nickel wont plate onto aluminum directly and needs zinc/copper strike to make the nickel adhere. it raises huge doubts.
and yet we could still do science here.
|
|
|
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes, but not about Rossi, the only one about whom I was speaking.
The larger field of LENR is rather more interesting, at that almost pre-scientific state where replication of results is still inconsistent and
hesitant.
|
|
|
gregxy
Hazard to Others
Posts: 421
Registered: 26-5-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Rossi's experiments are also deceptive. The last time I looked he was using his device to generate steam and from the amount of steam estimating the
power output. The problem is that the amount of power required to produce steam is highly dependent on the amount of atomized water in the steam.
(For example a simple sprayer will convert a liter of water into mist for a small fraction of the energy required to boil the water). A simpler and
more accurate way to measure the power/energy is to use the device to heat a large volume of liquid water and then measure the temperature change.
If you do some digging you will also find Rossi was charged with fraud in the past. It's a scam pure and simple.
|
|
|
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Posts: 2114
Registered: 29-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cold (Trans)fusion Power Supply - What you should use.
<img src="http://tshirtvortex.net/wp-content/uploads/unicornblood.jpg" />
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
