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Mark Gillogly
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SA-DS
I've heard a lot of talk about SA-DS but have never seen anything about the synthesis other than vague details. Other than those, no synthesis
information. I know that as with all explosives you are never 100% safe and all safety precautions must be taken. That being said, does anyone know
how sa-ds is prepared?
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mayko
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Hi Mark! Welcome to SM.
I assume that SA-DS refers to silver acetylide double salt. (Chemistry has lots of acronyms, so it is often helpful to spell things out at least once,
especially in a thread title)
If you haven't already, take a look in the library - Brauer's Inorganic has a section on SA-DS:
http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html
It's pretty straightforward, though. The only thing that I'd add is, acetylene can be pretty dirty, especially when freshly generated from calcium
carbide, so consider a gas washer or two.
[Edited on 21-12-2016 by mayko]
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
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PHILOU Zrealone
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First post...so welcome.
There is a tool into this forum called the search engine...it makes wonders...so use and abuse of it...read as much as you can and learn...
Other than that the subject of SANC (silver acetylide nitrato complex), SADS (silver acetylide double salt), Ag2C2.AgNO3, etc has been covered many
times and the last one is even a few 20 treads before yours...but I guess you missed it because you don't know chemistry very wel ... otherwise you would
know that SA into SANC and SADS is silver acetylide or Ag2C2 (Ag-C#C-Ag).
[Edited on 21-12-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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jamit
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Quote: Originally posted by BobD1001  | I purchased a quantity of Formaldehyde from Elemental about 6 months ago. I received it in an opaque HDPE container, and it has since been stored
along other similar liquids within a storage cabinet in my semi-temp controlled garage. The minimum temperature this cabinet will see in the winter is
approximately 55* F. Upon taking inventory today, I noticed a thick layer of white residue on the bottom of the bottle. At first I thought the bottle
was losing its integrity and becoming porous, but I quickly realized that it was in fact a white solid at the bottom of the container. A quick search
reveals that this is most likely Paraformaldehyde forming due to the colder temperatures. My question is, upon warmer temperatures will this
redissolve to reform the formaldehyde solution, or will it require more elevated temperatures. Here is a link to a picture of the bottle and its
bottom layer. Link
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I had the same problem. White solid at the bottom on the container of formaldehyde. it's paraformaldehyde. But my question is: to remove it, do we
just have to filter it and you have in the filtrate formaldehyde? or is the formaldehyde now useless and/or too contaminated. thanks.
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Microtek
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The formaldehyde solution is fine, though slightly less concentrated than before (since some of the formaldehyde has polymerised, and is no longer
dissolved). You could filter off the paraform, in which case I would recommend that you keep it, since it is a valuable reactant. You can also heat it
in water (in a fumehood), which causes it to depolymerize and turn into formaldehyde again.
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Bert
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Threads Merged
23-12-2016 at 19:54 |
Tin man
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Could Tetrakis(hydroxymethyl) silane be made by bubbling silane (SiH4) into a formaldehyde solution?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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I would say no because SiH4 must be a strong reducer and so CH2=O will more likely be reduced to CH3-OH or CH4 with possible formation of
Si(-O-CH3)x(H)4-x or SiO2 (= Si(OH)4).
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Tin man
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But if it was that strong, wouldn't it reduce water?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Doesn't it?
It reacts with O2 from air and water catalyses the autocombustion (pyrophoricity).
SiH4 is different from CH4 because Si is less electronegative than C but also because Si is less electronegative than H while C is more
electronegative than H.
C > H > Si
This means that SiH4 is a source of H(-) and that the Si inthere has a formal charge d4(+) while C has a formal charge d4(-) into CH4.
SiH4(g) + 2 O2(g) --> SiO2(s) + 2 H2O(g)
SiH4(g) + O2(g) --> SiO2(s) + 2 H2(g)
SiH4(g) + O2(g) --> SiH2O(s) + H2O(g)
SiH4(g) + 1/2 O2(g) --> SiH2O(s) + H2(g)
SiH2O(s) + O2(g) --> SiO2(s) + H2O(g)
and
SiH4(g) + H2O(l) --> SiH2O(s) + 2 H2(g)
SiH2O(s) + H2O(l) --> SiO2(s) + 2 H2(g)
SiH4(g) + 2 H2O(l) --> SiO2(s) + 4 H2(g)
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Tin man
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The only reason I think it doesn't react with water is that I have have seen several YouTube videos where magnesium silicide is added to 10% (aq) HCl
and and lots of tiny silane bubbles form. They are obviously still silane when they reach the serface because they still spit fire when they hit the
air.
Please let me know if I overlooked anything. Thanks!
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tin man | The only reason I think it doesn't react with water is that I have have seen several YouTube videos where magnesium silicide is added to 10% (aq) HCl
and and lots of tiny silane bubbles form. They are obviously still silane when they reach the serface because they still spit fire when they hit the
air.
Please let me know if I overlooked anything. Thanks! |
Maybe it reacts not efficiently and you end up with H2 and SiH4 that enflames spontaneously because of the later...
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Bert
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Dual purpose via a DIAL?!
The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.
Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector
ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.
Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?
I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting,
and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal
radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion
grenade?
http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...
But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.
The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a
straight walled cylinder.
When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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MineMan
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Damn Bert, good question!
I would think if the concussion mode shocked the metal into dust, then it would not be thick enough to due damage during the fragmentation mode. Yes,
those letters better have some tritium in them to glow in the dark! good point.
Maybe some complex metallurgy?? Yes I was thinking of the DIME also... but how would that help...
Bert, now I am unsettled until I can figure this out!.
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James Ikanov
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My brain keeps thinking there's some sort of wire mesh setup that is rotated to be closed around the explosive charge, kind of like watching a shutter
close, but I'm not sure how realistic that is given the electronic nature of the fusing and the claim I'd previously read about this that the
explosive train is designed in a way to make it nonfunctional until rotated into position.....
Tritium is expensive, specially doped glow in the dark polymer is cheap.
That aside I think they solved that specific design challenge by adding "braille bumps" on the selector setting. But I can't recall where I read
that.
“To do good work one must eat well, be well housed, have one's fling from time to time, smoke one's pipe, and drink one's coffee in peace” -
Vincent Van Gogh
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Does ditetrazolecarbazide exist ?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Should exist since amino-tetrazole exist and hydrazino-tetrazole aswel.
So in principle simply allowing phosgen or dimethyl carbonate to react with HT should lead to di-tetrazole-carbazide...
HN4C-NH-NH-CO-NH-NH-CN4H
Via
2 HN4C-NH-NH2 + Cl2C=O --> HN4C-NH-NH-CO-NH-NH-CN4H + 2 HCl
or
2 HN4C-NH-NH2 + (CH3O)2C=O --> HN4C-NH-NH-CO-NH-NH-CN4H + 2 CH3-OH
[Edited on 13-1-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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NeonPulse
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Just wondering if anyone has had attempted and success with this old preparation of
nitroguanidine:http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8911
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by NeonPulse | | Just wondering if anyone has had attempted and success with this old preparation of
nitroguanidine:http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8911 |
Axt into that tread and Engager into its famous tetrazole pdf paper.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Short question: How is compatability between ETN + KMnO4 ? ( Thanks, Philou...  )
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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De nada L.o.L.,
If the ETN is fully nitrated, wel neutralized and recrystallized (thus no traces of E3N, E2N, E1N and E(*)); it should be as stable as plain ETN
(shock, friction, impact), but maybe just a little less vs temperature...KMnO4 and MnO2 are combustion catalyst.
You want to make purple explosive? Jocker vs Batman   
Or maybe in memoriam Prince - The love symbol - Purple Rain.
(*)
Erythritol is directly related to propan-triol (aka glycerol/glycerine) because it is butan-tetrol...and glycerine + KMnO4 is unstorable because of
runnaway reaction involving oxydation of the OH groups, selfheating and spontaneous fire.
The organic acid produced by the oxydation provides H(+) for further faster oxydation...
[Edited on 24-1-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Maroboduus
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.
Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector
ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.
Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?
I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting,
and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal
radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion
grenade?
http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...
But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.
The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a
straight walled cylinder.
When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.
|
Could it be that the thing has a very small low explosive charge(even just like air-bag composition in cars) as well as the large one which does the
work, and the concussion setting sets off the small charge first, blowing the larger charge out of the fragmentation casing?
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus | | Quote: Originally posted by Bert | The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.
Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector
ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.
Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?
I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting,
and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal
radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion
grenade?
http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...
But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.
The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a
straight walled cylinder.
When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.
|
Could it be that the thing has a very small low explosive charge(even just like air-bag composition in cars) as well as the large one which does the
work, and the concussion setting sets off the small charge first, blowing the larger charge out of the fragmentation casing?
|
This was my first thought. You might have issues with the direction of the concussion charge as its being ejected from the casing--would that be an
issue?
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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purple rain
| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone |
De nada L.o.L.,
If the ETN is fully nitrated, wel neutralized and recrystallized (thus no traces of E3N, E2N, E1N and E(*)); it should be as stable as plain ETN
(shock, friction, impact), but maybe just a little less vs temperature...KMnO4 and MnO2 are combustion catalyst.
You want to make purple explosive? Jocker vs Batman
Or maybe in memoriam Prince - The love symbol - Purple Rain.
|
Huhaha...thanks,
My reason is not specially detonatable Purple Rain from Prince (One from best song of World), but this mix show on 100% deflagration - detonation
transfer. Basic ratios are 75 ETN + 12,5 KMnO4 + 12,5 Alu bright color type. Working it even with Bickford fuse type in cavity 6 mm. At 3 segments
with different density. Maybe time show on stability during a few months. ETN is from 2 x recrystal procedure. Still more, thanks..........
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | | Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone |
De nada L.o.L.,
If the ETN is fully nitrated, wel neutralized and recrystallized (thus no traces of E3N, E2N, E1N and E(*)); it should be as stable as plain ETN
(shock, friction, impact), but maybe just a little less vs temperature...KMnO4 and MnO2 are combustion catalyst.
You want to make purple explosive? Jocker vs Batman
Or maybe in memoriam Prince - The love symbol - Purple Rain.
|
Huhaha...thanks,
My reason is not specially detonatable Purple Rain from Prince (One from best song of World), but this mix show on 100% deflagration - detonation
transfer. Basic ratios are 75 ETN + 12,5 KMnO4 + 12,5 Alu bright color type. Working it even with Bickford fuse type in cavity 6 mm. At 3 segments
with different density. Maybe time show on stability during a few months. ETN is from 2 x recrystal procedure. Still more, thanks..........
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Ingenious.
A flash powder Al + KMnO4
+
Al/ETN D2D explosive
+
ETN a high detonating explosive
I'm more than eager to see your study of it and stability.
No moisture, and good quality Al powder --> no risk.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Maroboduus
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| Quote: Originally posted by Loptr | | Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus | | Quote: Originally posted by Bert | The US is planning to replace the old baseball fragmentation grenade with a dual purpose, electronicaly fused device.
Supposedly, this new grenade will select between concussion (offensive grenade) and fragmentation (defensive grenade) by merely turning a selector
ring. No removeable fragmentation sleeve, all the components stay with the device regardless of mode.
Anyone got a clue how this change in function is achieved?
I can hazard a guess at a scenario where the point(s) of initiation is oriented to PROPEL the pre shaped fragments for the defensive grenade setting,
and changed into an orientation such as to SHATTER the fragments into a fine dust, too small for to be a missile hazard beyond the concussion's lethal
radius when set as an offensive grenade- Perhaps even behaving more like a DIME device inside the concussion's radius than as a traditional concussion
grenade?
http://kitup.military.com/2016/09/u-s-army-working-dual-miss...
But found no hard information on mechanism during a quick google search.
The two devices used back in Vietnam era were very easy to tell apart, even by touch and in the dark- One was more or less spheroidal, the other a
straight walled cylinder.
When using the exact same device for both purposes, possibly in the dark and certainly while highly stressed? What could go wrong.
|
Could it be that the thing has a very small low explosive charge(even just like air-bag composition in cars) as well as the large one which does the
work, and the concussion setting sets off the small charge first, blowing the larger charge out of the fragmentation casing?
|
This was my first thought. You might have issues with the direction of the concussion charge as its being ejected from the casing--would that be an
issue? |
I don't think so if the ejection is at a relatively low speed (with an appropriate delay on the main charge of course)
Didn't they have land mines that did something like that back in the US/Vietnam war? Called them something like 'jump ups' ?
I'm not big on blowin' stuff up, so I know little about what does or doesn't work in a case like this. Just seemed like it might be a good guess.
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