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underground
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Can NH4CLO4 made from KCLO4 ? (using sulfuric acid and ammonium carbonate)
KCLO4 + H2SO4 --> K2SO4 + 2HClO4
( NH4)2CO3 + 2 HClO4 --> 2 NH4ClO4 + H2O + CO2
Then separate the NH4ClO4 from K2SO4 ( with Solubility )
[Edited on 8-3-2017 by underground]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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NH4ClO4 prepare
Here is something
https://sites.google.com/site/unusualchemistry/perchlorates
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underground
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The heating method looks interesting. I notice that Naclo3 got a melting point of 248–261 °C and Naclo4 at 468 °C so i guess with Naclo3 will work
too. I may try it.
I just ask from Kclo4 to NH4CLO4 cause metathesis reaction does not work and kclo3 can be made more easily than naclo3 with a cell. Kclo3 will ppt out
while Naclo3 wont.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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According all, is necessary obtained, get firstly NaClO4. After will preparation easy. Small amount NaClO3 in NaClO4 (from cell process) is possible
get out helping HCl acid. Is described under picture in link.
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MineMan
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Why is hydrazine such a great fuel... it makes the highest VOD binary for AN explosives...8200-8600m/s
ANNM only goes to about 6400m/s and the NM is a molecular explosive. Are there any replacements for hydrazine that would give similar performance..?
What is so special about N2H4? What about ammonia hydroxide as a fuel??
There has to be something out there that can match hydrazine and is safer... there are dozens of molecular explosives that can match HMX and Cl-20,
why no fuels that can match hydrazine?
Not knowing the answer is truly pissing me off.
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Dornier 335A
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Hydrazine has positive enthalpy of formation, no carbon and lots of hydrogen. This makes it the ultimate fuel for high VoD compositions. The product
gases, consisting mainly of water and hydrogen, have an unusually steep isentrope which results in high ɣ and high VoD at a relatively low detonation
pressure (comparable to the pressure of other compositions with the same density like ANNM). Therefore, VoD is not the perfect performance measure.
For example, it's not nearly as brisant as PETN (8400 m/s). Other explosives with great hydrogen content and similar high VoD/pressure ratio are
nitroguanidine (8200 m/s) and hydrazine nitrate (8500 m/s).
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PHILOU Zrealone
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The use of N2H4.HNO3 with TATNB (triaminotrinitrobenzene) allows one to go over the 9300 m/s...
 My guess is that N2H4.2 HClO4 as a replacement of N2H4.HNO3 in this mix would
make it even better...because N2H4.HClO4 already reaches the 9800 m/s.
Alternative superfuels?
* Trihydrazino-s-triazine (brother of melamine) will be even better as fuels
than N2H4 for most detonic applications.
* Triaminoguanidine ((H2N-NH)2C=N-NH2)
* Other molecular superfuels would involve H2N-NH-C#N (cyanhydrazide /
cyanohydrazine), H2N-N(-C#N)2 (unsymetric dicyanhydrazide),N#C-NH-NH-C#N (symetrical dicyanhydrazide), N#C-NH-N(-C#N)2 (tricyanhydrazide /
tricyanohydrazine) and (N#C-)2N-N(-C#N)2 (tetracyanhydrazide / tetracyanohydrazine).
* Other possibility is the same as above but based on tetrazolo instead of
cyano I suppose that H2N-NH-CN4H (hydrazinotetrazole) will make wonders just like tetra-tetrazolo-hydrazine. The multiple unsaturated N chain stores
energy.
* You also have non hydrazine related compounds like polyacetylenic
(butadiyne, hexatriyne), polycyanido (cyanoform, tetracyanomethane, dicyanoacetylen, dicyanobutadiyne, hexacyanobenzene, ... for sure superfuels but
very dense and very energetic because triple links as C#C or C#N store a lot of energy...that is why the burning temperature of such fuels is very
high...and those compounds are quite unstable owing to the very negative enthalpy of formation from their elements (this means they are more than
happy to split back to their elements...acetylene or cyanogen are propagating explosive/detonating on their own under specific conditions of pressure
and shock.
* Azido group also stores energy so polyazido compounds or mixing of Azido and
cyano, tetrazolo, hydrazino, diazo would be another way to boost up the fuel...
--> the only limitation is the practical stability of such fuels towards self decomposition or sensitivity against
external stimuli (shock, heat, light,...) --> activation energy barrier.
Theorically (and practically) I wonder what would happen if TATNB is replaced by THTNB (trihydrazinotrinitrobenzene) into the initial mix as its
mononitrate, dinitrate or trinitrate or better its monoperchlorate, diperchlorate or triperchlorate?
--> Ultimate mix THTNB triperchlorate and N2H4.2 HClO4 from stoechimetric mix to slightly negative one?
[Edited on 14-3-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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Dornier 335A
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Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  | My guess is that N2H4.2 HClO4 as a replacement of N2H4.HNO3 in this mix would make it even better...because N2H4.HClO4 already reaches the 9800 m/s.
[Edited on 14-3-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone] |
I would be very interested to see a source for that Philou. 9800 m/s sounds like a typo.
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MineMan
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PHILOU,
What you wrote to me is foreign, what do I need to read to understand it. I have never heard of those chemicals, I don't know if they even exist? I
am more interested in fuels that would be economic..
Why is nitrogen so good and carbon so bad? I thought the best fuel was hydrogen because of 142MJ/kg??? if so wouldn't hydrides be the best fuel,
like nano LiAlH4??
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | PHILOU,
What you wrote to me is foreign, what do I need to read to understand it. I have never heard of those chemicals, I don't know if they even exist? I
am more interested in fuels that would be economic..
Why is nitrogen so good and carbon so bad? I thought the best fuel was hydrogen because of 142MJ/kg??? if so wouldn't hydrides be the best fuel,
like nano LiAlH4?? |
Yes I know sometimes I speak chinese ;-) or too chemically.
Most of the molecules I have mentionned do exist...a few are extrapolated and may or not exist (yet).
Hydrogen is good because of its very small weight per mole, so you have a lot of moles per kg...but stil H2/O2 doesn't burn "very hot" under normal
conditions (stil 2000°C) (thus not when H2 and O2 are activated or pre-splitted like in hydrogen plasma torch).
On the other hand acetylen, diacetylen (butadiyne), cyanogen, hydrogen cyanide, dicyanoacetylen, dicyanobutadiyne,...when mixed with O2 all burn very
much hotter than 3000°C (and up to close to 5000°C)...this has to do with the endothermic nature of those compounds (tripple links store a lot of
energy)... the endothermic energy adds to the normal burning energy of the elements alone.
Hottest flame temperature
It seems I was right in saying that non hydrogen containing HE display a hotter explosion heat/detonation heat because the H2O exhausted reduces the
heat...probably linked to the heat capacity of water and water vapour.
Also you have to take into account the heat output per kg, but also per volume...hydrogen is not very dense while other fuel are denser because
condensed or even solid.
To fully understand this you really have to read a little about the following:
-standard enthalpy of reaction (specifically burning reaction)
-standard enthalpy of formation of molecules (and of elements)
-Hess law of thermodynamic
Then everything will be much clearer to you.
[Edited on 22-3-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by Dornier 335A | | Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | My guess is that N2H4.2 HClO4 as a replacement of N2H4.HNO3 in this mix would make it even better...because N2H4.HClO4 already reaches the 9800 m/s.
[Edited on 14-3-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone] |
I would be very interested to see a source for that Philou. 9800 m/s sounds like a typo. |
It comes from datas out of a very long VOD/Lead block test/Sand crushing test table from Don J Haarman.
I will put it here soon. It seems I have made a mistake or two...but the numbers must be close.
I'm gathering info on that so you can make accurate calculations with your ingenious program VOD calculator/simulator.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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FeedMe94
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Hello everyone , im new to the forum and i would like to ask about ANFO. Here where i live they keep detonating ANFO with 12grams per meter DetCord by
doing a knot or two at the end of the DetCord which its inside the middle of the ANFO mixture. In their mixture they are using common bleach (
chlorine ) from the supermarket. Any idea why they are adding chlorine to ANFO mixture ? Cant find info anywhere on the internet about that mix. Also
i would like to ask what im doing wrong when detonating ANFO and i dont get a full detonation ? Im using 10g ETN or 10g PETN as a booster for 1kg
ANFO. They are using arround 15cm of DetCord for 1kg ANFO and their detonation is way better than mine
Sorry about my english
[Edited on 2-4-2017 by feedme94]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Your questions look like from someone who collects information about the activity on science madness. But energy materials he does not understand at
all. Because your questions are contradictory and very weird. Can you make ETN and PETN? How is it possible that you do not know what exactly is Anfo?
And confuses on this bleach from supermarket ? You seem as uneducated agent...........LL:
I recommend read minimal 10 types of patents about ANFO (google) and every from this minimal 3x again around. After will your questions self -
answered.
[Edited on 2-4-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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FeedMe94
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The problem is that i cant say what i think because my english are bad. I know exactly what ANFO is and i have read many patents of ANFO. I just cant
find anything about chlorine as sensitizer. Also i cant understand how does a little bit of detcord will fully detonate ANFO when im using 10g of PETN
and it wouldnt
[Edited on 2-4-2017 by feedme94]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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1) Your ANFO is maybe tragical combination some + some.
2) Using chlorine or his derivates in ANFO are bullshit.
3) Detcord is professional cable, device, in amateur praxis not using, because is it expensive.
4) after study patents on google you find ANFO, which is sensitive on detonator No. 4. Or 300mg HMTD.
Best patent on ANFO sensitive on No. 4
https://www.google.com/patents/US3247033
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FeedMe94
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| Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | 1) Your ANFO is maybe tragical combination some + some.
2) Using chlorine or his derivates in ANFO are bullshit.
3) Detcord is professional cable, device, in amateur praxis not using, because is it expensive.
4) after study patents on google you find ANFO, which is sensitive on detonator No. 4. Or 300mg HMTD.
Best patent on ANFO sensitive on No. 4
https://www.google.com/patents/US3247033 |
Thank you for your answer.
1) My ANFO Mixture is 94.5% AN and 5.5% Diesel fuel by weight. Also my AN is activated prilled or powder.
2) I have no idea why they are using chlorine in their mixtures. The only think i found so far is this
http://issc2015.system-safety.org/T12_Poly_Prop_Ex_Tutorial_...
It says in here that they use chlorine ion as catalysts for Ammonium Nitrate.
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yobbo II
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Is this similar to Tannerite? What is the sensitivity of tannerite and would this mixture be a good substitute.
Yob
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JJay
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I feel like a complete newb asking this, but can you submit a septum that has been pierced to a vacuum?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by JJay | | I feel like a complete newb asking this, but can you submit a septum that has been pierced to a vacuum? |
What do you mean by this?
A septum with the seringe pin stil sticked into the septum or a septum that has lost some of its integrity after piercing and the pin is taken away?
For the first case I think it can be done and while doing this the container will be vaccuumed via the pin hole...I suppose the idea is to take the
pin away afterwards and get the recipient with septum and its content (a sensitive to air compound?) under vaccuum...right?
The only trouble that may arrise is that the septum might be too flexible and afterwards (when coming back to ambiant pressure) is sucked up into the
recipient...but it is worth a try.
For the second case the septum if mobile (like a rubber plug without metallic ring) will be propelled into the vaccuum chamber due to inner pressure
vs outside low one; otherwise if metallic ring is present to hold it it will probably enflate and deform due to inner pressure vs outside difference
and at a certain point the hole will no more be self confined by the surrounding rubber and it will allow escape of some of the inner gas to the
vaccuum...thus deflation will occure until system is again at equilibrium...more than probably the pressure inside the recipient will remain higher
than the outside vaccuum so some gas will remain inside it. Once again at ambiant pressure the pressure inside the recipient will be lower than the
ambiant one. --> patm > precipient > pvacuum.
This in comparison with the first case with the pin where
patm > precipient = pvacuum.
[Edited on 4-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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JJay
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Umm... this is actually a pretty common situation. Say, for example, that you are doing a vacuum distillation with a Hempel column that has a sidearm.
Can you remove the distillate from the apparatus while the distillation is underway?
Note: I am not sure why, but questions of this nature seem to draw a lot of speculation and guesswork. I can speculate and make guesses myself; please
answer only if you have actually done this before and know the answer.
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DrP
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I think it depends on the extent of the vacuum, the size of the hole from the piercing and the rigidity of the stopper.
If the vacuum is very high then then it might suck the rubber down into the apparatus and the 'hole' in the rubber septum may open and allow air in.
I have seen Shlenk type tubes used - where they are positioned at the join where you want to introduce your material into the reaction. You can use a
septum/rubber stopper on the shlenk. You vac the system down and then close off the shlenk to the vacuum and introduce the reactant.... seal the
shlenk and open it up to the vacuum again - once the reactant has dripped through into the reaction vessel then the shlenk can be reclosed. Any
sucking in of the stopper happens in the shlenk and not the reaction vessel - if it looks bad and the seal is goin to fail then the shlenk can be
closed off from the main vessel and sealed vis the tap. I hope that make sense... a bit like a dropping funnel.
The problem with this imo is that there might be reactant remaining on the side of the glass ware that never reaches the main vessel.
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DrP
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PS - I am not sure if Shlenk is the right piece of kit - I am thinking of something that's sort of between a shlenk and a dropping funnel.... maybe
it's just called a dropping funnel idk.
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by JJay | Umm... this is actually a pretty common situation. Say, for example, that you are doing a vacuum distillation with a Hempel column that has a sidearm.
Can you remove the distillate from the apparatus while the distillation is underway?
Note: I am not sure why, but questions of this nature seem to draw a lot of speculation and guesswork. I can speculate and make guesses myself; please
answer only if you have actually done this before and know the answer. |
OK I see.
If your septum is thick enough like a rubber stopper it will never deform enough to be able to be sucked up into the recipient and the transition hole
will self obstruct once the seringue and pin are taken out of it.
Of course you will have a harder time to get your pin through it.
Why don't you make use of a roded tap? So you can close the tap...pressure equalize the receiver with distillate and collect the liquid then put it
again into place, open slowly the tap to go back to full vaccuum. While the receiver is away the condensing liquid will accumulate a little above the
tap.
You may also think to an anti-suck back valve on what the seringue may be placed.
[Edited on 7-4-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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NaCl separe NaClO3
How apart NaClO3 from NaCl solution ? I have 100g mix NaClO3 + NaCl as dry crystals. This mix content : 50% NaCl + 50% NaClO3
Or also 10% NaCl + 90% NaClO3. It nobody know. Graph for NaCl is solubility 35g in 100g Water at 0 C. And 39g at 100 C.
For NaClO3 is graph solubility : 80g at 0 Cels. and 200g at 100 Celsia. Exist some method recrystallization. I look on all S-M, but not find describe
exactly how to make. Especially making so, for relatively best purity on NaClO3. NaClO3 estimate stay as solution. But at how concentration create
before heating on 100 C ? Dissolving 200g mix-salts in 100g H2O at 99 C ? And after what? Decrease slowly temperature on 50 C? And by 50 Celsius
separe NaCl ? Or separe by zero Celsius all crysralls ? Thanks..........
Exist 1000 tutorials how to make KClO3 but nothing for NaClO3.
[Edited on 7-4-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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yobbo II
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You will simply love the mutual solubility graphs that are to be found here
http://www.oocities.org/capecanaveral/campus/5361/chlorate/s...
The best way to get solid sodium chlorate is to keep adding salt (NaCl) solution to your cell and keep running electricity into the cell untill solid
sodium chlorate starts to appear on the cell bottom. Then cool and take out a crop of solid sodium chlorate. Keep running and adding salt solution.
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