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MineMan
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Hi All,
Google has continued to become worse and worse of a search engine these last few months... showing things that are not relevant.
Anyways, I am looking for a PETN Synth using sulfuric acid and a nitrate like ammonium nitrate. I cant find this. can someone point me to the
correct source?
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XeonTheMGPony
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quite a few in the energetic forum, just got to read though it all!
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MineMan
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That was so helpful! ok, now back to the real world, not the world of sarcasm!
That was literally the worse answer pyro guy
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Beware
Beware of this seller. Sells very low quality platinum anodes.
http://store.theamateurchemist.com/platinum-titanium-anode-2...
All describe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV-SaP2iv7s
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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PbO2 anode
Has anyone recommendation on seller for Lead dioxide anode PbO2 - beta ? Some experiences ? Thanks............. ..........LL
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Hi L(o)L  ,
The joinded document explain how to make alfa- and beta-PbO2 anodes and their properties.
It seems that the alfa is better but not wel studied.
Enjoy and continue the good job and experimentation.
PHZ
Attachment: Unsoluble anode lead dioxide coated on titanium for electrosynthesis of sodium perchlorate.pdf (267kB)
This file has been downloaded 456 times
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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PbO2 alpha type
Great , thanks. But in tutorial is absence concentration KOH. What is (4M) ? Others prepare conditions seems pretty easy. And maybe preparation Lead
acetate can be problem, of course is necessary study how make him. 40g per liter solubility in KOH electrolyte. Clear ratio. But basic concentration
KOH is describe not.
Next question is, why everybody not use from year 1990 only alpha type PbO2 anode. Everywhere is prefer beta PbO2.
Maybe is only same , as with prefer the primer Lead azide. Commerce conditions are cheapest for acid bath or some so. ......LL
[Edited on 8-5-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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It is under the 4M secret code information.....
But only initiated chemist know that... 
It is common chemical writting ... 4M is "4 molar concentration" what means 4 moles per liter solution.
************************************
You of course know what a mole is?
In biology it is an underground digger mamal that destroys green grass gardens by making tiny soil bumps everywhere as aeration holes.
But in chemistry it is a number defining a group/a number/amount of atoms or molecules that provide a workable quantity linked to the Avogadro's
number (6,022 140 857 × 1023 units)...
So when mixing the two biological and chemical notion you have
6,022 140 857 × 1023 moles is a mole of moles ... (Chemical joke).
Si if you have 2 shoes you have a pair of shoes, if you have 12 shoes you have a dozen of shoes or 6 pairs of shoes...and if you have 6,022 140 857 ×
1023 shoes, you have a mole of shoes...convenient isn't it?
It is a hurge number but when applying it to molecules and atoms what are very tiny and weights nearly Nothing if furnish you the quantities to work
at our scale and to allow us to react together réactants to get products whith the help of the periodic table of the elements and the atomic
masses...this is stoechiometry what links equations containing number of molecules that interacts; their molecular/atomic weight and multiplied by the
Avogadro's number to get it as a mass of réactants...
As an example:
So 2g H2 gas contains (approx) 1 mole of H2 molecules but two moles of H atoms.
So 32g S contains (approx) 1 mole of S atoms.
By warming the two
H2(g) + S(s) --> H2S(g)
You get 34g H2S or (approx) 1 mole ...
Smokey....Stinky
[Edited on 8-5-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Only one thing, what I am understood, that I had 6 pairs of stinky shoes. And on the garden 4 the moles. Thanks for explanation.
Well...concentration 1 M is less than 4 M. However, still is not clear, how much KOH is need insert, in order that arise solution 4M KOH....Shoes are
clear. Everybody the Mole are also in their holes. Schrödinger´s cat in the box. But KOH stay top secret.
........ LL
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  | Only one thing, what I am understood, that I had 6 pairs of stinky shoes. And on the garden 4 the moles. Thanks for explanation.
Well...concentration 1 M is less than 4 M. However, still is not clear, how much KOH is need insert, in order that arise solution 4M KOH....Shoes are
clear. Everybody the Mole are also in their holes. Schrödinger´s cat in the box. But KOH stay top secret.
........ LL |
You got everything right ;-)
Molar Mass KOH = 56,1056 gr/mol (1 mole of KOH weights 56,1056 grams)
So 1M is 1 mole/L or 56,1056 gr into 1 L volume solution.
So 4 M is 4 mole/L or 4*56,1056 gr = 224.4224 gr into 1 L volume solution.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Oh not...So easy...? Well...Thus, is necessary use 700g pure water and insert 224,5g KOH and after pour water on volume 1dm3. Not on 1 kg, because it
not it same. OK, last problem is solved, done. Thanks for superchemical counting..............LL
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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drifting_mine
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Hi everyone
I've lately been experimenting with etn, and about a month ago i prepared some with H2SO4 (95%) and NH4NO3. I then washed it with distilled water and
NaHCO3 solution but this time I didn't recrystallize it. Yeld was about 11 grams of a fine white powder with some minor lumps that I divided into
smaller batches and placed in various containers in different places: I even left a small amount (0.25 g) in direct contact with sunlight. The result
is that after a month in none of the samples any sign of degradation is noticeable, with sensitivity tests remaining the same as it was just prepared,
even in poorly packed samples or left in open air (and without any recrystallization).
QUESTIONS: Should degradation of etn affect its sensitivity? Is degradation even an issue? (I know it has a long shelf life)
I now plan on recrystallizing some of the samples by dissolving it in hot ethanol, filter it and then dumping it in cold water as I usually do: is
this a good method or should etn be allowed to slowly crystallize as the solution cools to room temperature?
Should I add some NaHCO3 solution to the etn solution befor recrystallization?
*I apologize for any language mistake*
Thanks!
[Edited on 9-5-2017 by drifting_mine]
[Edited on 9-5-2017 by drifting_mine]
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greenlight
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It is quite hard to find any test results for ETN as no one has really conducted many. Probably due to the fact that PETN found more use as a
commercial/military explosive so all the testing was done on it instead.
I am fairly sure that ETN is quite similar in storage stability to PETN and you should have no worries if it is recrystallized and acid free . The
only information I could find was on wikipedia about a 4 year storage stability test but you don't know how much truth there is to it as I can't find
any info on it anywhere else. Here is the transcript :
"Studies that directly observed the crystalline structure saw no signs of decomposition after four years of storage at room temperature."
As for the recyrstallisation, I usually dissolve in alcohol and pour slowly into heavily stirred ice-water to get sand like granules. You can add
small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum.
The only use for an atomic bomb is to keep somebody else from using one.
George Wald
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drifting_mine
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| Quote: Originally posted by greenlight | | You can add small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum.
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Thank you for the answer greenlight, I do remember reading about that procedure on the forum but i couldn't find it.
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FeedMe94
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| Quote: Originally posted by greenlight |
As for the recyrstallisation, I usually dissolve in alcohol and pour slowly into heavily stirred ice-water to get sand like granules. You can add
small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum. |
I can only aquire 2 types of ethanol. The first one is 93% ethanol denatured with turpentine and methanol also is colored with methylene blue.
The other one is 95% and its denatured with water and glycerin.
Can i use any of these to recrystalize ETN ?
I cant find anything about purifying these and distillation wont work at least this is what they told me.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by feedme94 | | Quote: Originally posted by greenlight |
As for the recyrstallisation, I usually dissolve in alcohol and pour slowly into heavily stirred ice-water to get sand like granules. You can add
small amount of sodium bicarbonate and ammonia if you wish. This process is documented somewhere else on the forum. |
I can only aquire 2 types of ethanol. The first one is 93% ethanol denatured with turpentine and methanol also is colored with methylene blue.
The other one is 95% and its denatured with water and glycerin.
Can i use any of these to recrystalize ETN ?
I cant find anything about purifying these and distillation wont work at least this is what they told me.
|
I would go for the second one because less ingrédients and of lower impact to the ETN.
Strange that this second alcohol cannot be purified by distillation because glycerine is quite non volatile and sticks well to water...so in
principle...a simple evaporation 1 plate should get you nearly pure ethanol and leave H2O and glycerine behind...
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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underground
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testing the chlorate ph
I have read that the ph of chlorate cell cant be measured directly cause hypochlorite will bleach the paper, this can be solved by boiling the
solution. Can i just use h202 to destroy the hypochlorite then test it with a ph paper ? or will h202 affect the ph ?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by underground | | I have read that the ph of chlorate cell cant be measured directly cause hypochlorite will bleach the paper, this can be solved by boiling the
solution. Can i just use h202 to destroy the hypochlorite then test it with a ph paper ? or will h202 affect the ph ? |
Hard to tell...
*Hypochlorite/bleach water is usually quite basic (holding a few % of NaOH for stability
*If you start from NaCl...the media will also turn basic because some Cl2 is lost into the process as Cl2...
*Bleach and H2O2....different compounds same fight....
H2O2 may have acidic or basic stabilisators...it is also a strong oxydiser (just like hypochlorite)...as such it will aswel discolor the pH paper.
I think that if you work/read fast...you may use the paper strip for both H2O2 and ClO(-)...the discoloration is not always instantaneous (depends
onto quantity, concentration and heat)
Better use a drop of the solution on one specific place of the strip...so you may use the paper strip several times for a multiple pH determination at
different moments.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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underground
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Thank you PHILOU for your valuable help, i really appreciate that. I will take them into consideration
[Edited on 20-6-2017 by underground]
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by underground | Thank you PHILOU for your valuable help, i really appreciate that. I will take them into consideration
[Edited on 20-6-2017 by underground] |
De nada...my plaisure.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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MineMan
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Does anyone know the optimum ZPP ratios for max VOD.
I have no experience with ZR KclO4 mixtures, and I know that if we just followed stiochiometry for flash powder the resulting 65/35 mix is very weak.
Does anyone have hands one experience with ZPP?
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Uriel
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Hello guys,
I tried to suppress NO2 and NOx gas from H2SO4+HNO3 solution but I have some problems.
I often make a nitrating mixture of 40g of pure NH4NO3 + 100g of H2SO4 >96% and I have a slightly brown color in the obtained liquid.
More the acids are "brown" (still slightly) more my yield decrease. I fall from 95 to 87% for my ETN.
Recentlly, I have add 0.4g of urea : many bubble appeared and my mixture overflowing with foam at room temperature.
Another time, at cold temperature (-5°C) little bubbles still appeared when I move the beaker after 24H of rest.
And the coolor is still the same, slightly brown/yellowish 
Do you know if urea nitrate react with ammonium sulfate or anything ?
Do you know how can I remove NO2 gas from my nitrating bath ?
Thank you !
[Edited on 8-7-2017 by Uriel]
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kratomiter
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| Quote: Originally posted by Uriel | Hello guys,
I tried to suppress NO2 and NOx gas from H2SO4+HNO3 solution but I have some problems.
I often make a nitrating mixture of 40g of pure NH4NO3 + 100g of H2SO4 >96% and I have a slightly brown color in the obtained liquid.
More the acids are "brown" (still slightly) more my yield decrease. I fall from 95 to 87% for my ETN.
Recentlly, I have add 0.4g of urea : many bubble appeared and my mixture overflowing with foam at room temperature.
Another time, at cold temperature (-5°C) little bubbles still appeared when I move the beaker after 24H of rest.
And the coolor is still the same, slightly brown/yellowish
Do you know if urea nitrate react with ammonium sulfate or anything ?
Do you know how can I remove NO2 gas from my nitrating bath ?
Thank you !
[Edited on 8-7-2017 by Uriel] |
When I do a nitrating bath with KNO3 and SA (drain cleaner), the solution turns completely clear when I heat it to 80ºC.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by Uriel | Hello guys,
I tried to suppress NO2 and NOx gas from H2SO4+HNO3 solution but I have some problems.
I often make a nitrating mixture of 40g of pure NH4NO3 + 100g of H2SO4 >96% and I have a slightly brown color in the obtained liquid.
More the acids are "brown" (still slightly) more my yield decrease. I fall from 95 to 87% for my ETN.
Recentlly, I have add 0.4g of urea : many bubble appeared and my mixture overflowing with foam at room temperature.
Another time, at cold temperature (-5°C) little bubbles still appeared when I move the beaker after 24H of rest.
And the coolor is still the same, slightly brown/yellowish
Do you know if urea nitrate react with ammonium sulfate or anything ?
Do you know how can I remove NO2 gas from my nitrating bath ?
Thank you !
[Edited on 8-7-2017 by Uriel] |
Blow dry air into the solution...it will take the NxOy away with the gas flow into a few minutes...
Alternatively add some dry urea nitrate (UN - united nations ;-)into your reaction vessel...
It will provide some anhydrous HNO3...destroy the NxOy and sadly also generate some water...that's why the HNO3 taken with it is good for to diminish
the impact of the water of oxydation
NH2-CO-NH2 + 3 O (from NxOy) --> N2 + CO2 + 2 H2O
So the overal added HNO3 via UN is equivalent to "HNO3 . 2 H2O" (or HNO3 63%)...so better not use too much of it and only the required amount...in a
way not to dillute too much the reaction media.
[Edited on 10-7-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Assured Fish
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Joint grease for the grignard reaction?
Hi all.
I was wondering if it was alright to use Vaseline grease for ground glass joints in a grignard reaction, i know Vaseline is quite hydrophobic but i
wasn't sure if perhaps some of the other components of Vaseline could react with or degrade a grignard reagent. Refluxing ether will likely pull a
small amount of grease into the boiling flask and im not too bothered about Vaseline contaminants provided they don't lower yields.
Thanks
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