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Hennig Brand
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I also read that very good article a while ago. I didn't rinse the battery for a full hour, but I more or less followed his procedure other than that.

Might as well post the pdf, just in case the link isn't around at some point.

"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
smithdotyu
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what is the fuel of USSR rocket Katyusha in WW2

Hi everybody：
I have try KNDX、KNSU、KNSB as rocket fuel， but i found this rocket fuel enthalpy is low，I know USSR invent a good rocket named Katyusha in ww2，I think this rocket fuel may be AN（NH4NO3），Is there any document about this rocket fuel？
Bert

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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

It was double base propellant. Nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-82_%28rocket_family%29

http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/anur/rs82-132.html

[Edited on 10-2-2015 by Bert]

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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

smithdotyu
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 Quote: Originally posted by Bert It was double base propellant. Nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-82_%28rocket_family%29 http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/anur/rs82-132.html [Edited on 10-2-2015 by Bert]

Thank you.I used to thought that the rocket fuel is AN ,Russia use nitroglycerin is crazy！ It is hard and dangerous for me to make this fuel
smithdotyu
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kclo3 + ZnS make primer

I want't make some primer. In our country ，we have use kclo3 + As2S3（realgar）.but this reaction product is （As2O3）Arsenic is poisonous。so I want use ZnS instead ，Is it possible？
Bert

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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

Describe what you want to ignite?

How you want to trigger the ignition. Friction? Impact? Shock wave? Electrically heated wire? Shooting primer with LASER beam through a fiber optic cable? Adiabatic heating? Ionizing radiation???

How long does the primer need to be stored and still work 100%- A week? A year? 10 years?

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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

smithdotyu
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er，i want make stab composition instead mercury fulminate
Bert

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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

The Potassium chlorate:Arsenic sulfide mix is only used for friction igniters in fireworks novelties, as far as I know. Mercury fulminate primers have a poor storage life.

Antimony sulfide is commonly used for stab and percussion primers.

Go North to Liuyang...

Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

Bert
10-2-2015 at 08:04
Bert
10-2-2015 at 08:05
ecos
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Quote: Originally posted by smithdotyu
 Quote: Originally posted by Bert It was double base propellant. Nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-82_%28rocket_family%29 http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/anur/rs82-132.html [Edited on 10-2-2015 by Bert]

Thank you.I used to thought that the rocket fuel is AN ,Russia use nitroglycerin is crazy！ It is hard and dangerous for me to make this fuel

Bert

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ecos-

Somehow, a combination of NO mention of diphenylamine or other acid scavengers in that mixture, along with the storage stability given as "can be stored for many years" does not inspire confidence in the information.

Could you list title & author?

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Trotsky
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Right, but since I assume "many years" is less than a decade, that might not be so bad. Assuming suitably washed NC, at least a few years probably isn't too unlikely, it's only 25% NC. I've had some NC that I made almost exactly three years ago stored in a pill bottle that still burns leaving very little residue (probably more than when I first made it, admittedly, but it's not that different from very produced NC) and hasn't yellowed or filled with red vapor yet.

This doesn't seem to be a new document by any stretch. I wonder when it was made and what sort of stability testing they did at the time. Some of these older documents describe propellants and explosives that seem to have just been invented and compare them to things that today seem hard to imagine.
ecos
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you can find the mixture in a patent : https://www.google.de/patents/US3753810?dq=nitrocellulose+am...

regarding the screenshot :
reference : Preparatory-Manual-of-Black-Powder-and-Pyrotechnics -- first edition
page 88
Bert

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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".

ecos-

The patent does suggest use of diphenylamine or similar stabilizers.

 Quote: The powder preferably contains a conventional stabilising agent, such as diphenylamine or 2- nitrodiphenylamine, in a quantity of l to 2 percent by weight based on the ammonium nitrate and nitrocellulose.

However, this is stated to be useful as a gun propellant- Specifically, use in the secondary charges (increments) of mortar rounds. I believe your interest is in rocket propellants?

If you put an Aluminum fueled propellant in a rifled gun, accuracy will be destroyed VERY quickly. Aluminum oxide is a good abrasive.

Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

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4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

PHILOU Zrealone
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 Quote: Originally posted by Bert If you put an Aluminum fueled propellant in a rifled gun, accuracy will be destroyed VERY quickly. Aluminum oxide is a good abrasive.

Except if they finally do C-diamond thin layer coating inside the canon
or alternatively
-Tungsten carbide (WxCy)
-Carborundum (SiC)

[Edited on 15-2-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]

PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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otonel
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What do you think about using lead chlorate instead of potassium chlorate, lead chlorate drawback is its toxicity but lead chloride I dont think is corrosive.
PHILOU Zrealone
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It might be interesting, some heavy metal chlorite are shock-heat sensitive explosive so maybe Ag, Hg and Pb chlorate are good candidate for percussion mixes.
Beware that some of those heavy metal chlorate are moisture sensitive...this tendency increases from the unsoluble halide to the very soluble perchlorate passing through hypochlorite, chlorite and chlorate oxydation state.

PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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otonel
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I dont have success to make lead chlorate, first time I obtain lead dioxide using sodium hipoclorite and sodium chlorate solution from bleach , next try was with a solution of lead acetate and potassium chlorate but the result was not i want
I need your help to obtain lead chlorate because my experiments failed
jock88
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Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone
 Quote: Originally posted by Bert If you put an Aluminum fueled propellant in a rifled gun, accuracy will be destroyed VERY quickly. Aluminum oxide is a good abrasive.

Except if they finally do C-diamond thin layer coating inside the canon
or alternatively
-Tungsten carbide (WxCy)
-Carborundum (SiC)

[Edited on 15-2-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Rhenium too I think
Molecular Manipulations
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otonel, all transition metal chlorate and perchlorates are very soluble. I don't think there's a very easy was to make it, try chloric acid with lead oxide, hydroxide or carbonate.

-The manipulator
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PHILOU Zrealone
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 Quote: Originally posted by otonel I dont have success to make lead chlorate, first time I obtain lead dioxide using sodium hipoclorite and sodium chlorate solution from bleach , next try was with a solution of lead acetate and potassium chlorate but the result was not i want I need your help to obtain lead chlorate because my experiments failed

Quite easy...avoid concentrated H2SO4 it would decompose your HClO3 into ClxOy and Cl2, O2 fumes...
Ba(ClO3)2 (solution) + H2SO4 (<40%) --> BaSO4(s) + 2 HClO3
Ca(ClO3)2 (solution) + H2SO4 (<40%) --> CaSO4(s) + 2 HClO3
Filtrate sulfate precipitate to get free HClO3 acid.
Ba(ClO3)2 is available from BaCl2 electrolysis (beware of toxicity of soluble Ba(2+) salts!)
Ca(ClO3)2 is available from CaCl2 electrolysis

2 HClO3 + PbCO3 --> Pb(ClO3)2 + CO2 + H2O
2 HClO3 + Pb --> Pb(ClO3)2 + H2
2 HClO3 + PbO --> Pb(ClO3)2 + H2O
2 HClO3 + Pb(OH)2 --> Pb(ClO3)2 + 2 H2O

PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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Gargamel
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ETN crystal size vs. sensitivity

Imagine you have two samples of ETN, one with very fine, one with rather large crystals.
Both pressed to the same density, not extremely hard, maybe 1g/cm³.

Which one would you expect to be more sensitive/easier to initiate?
Hennig Brand
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I was always under the impression that large crystals of solid explosives were normally considered to be more sensitive, and to some types of initiation they are. Pressed in a blasting cap casing though and initiated by a primary explosive I think that smaller crystals are generally more sensitive. The following was taken from, " Critical Parameters For Detonation Propagation And Initiation of Solid Explosives", by Donna Price (1981).

"
Particle Size (6) Effect (Critical Particle Size)

The particle size effect on dc is the same for both groups of explosives:
the smaller 6, the smaller dc. Hence decreasing 6 increases the ability of the
charge to propagate detonation."

There is also a graph attached to that post, taken from the document, that shows critical diameter of TNT as a function of particle size.

ETN is so sensitive, though, and the difference in sensitivity so small for most normal purposes that it is probably insignificant. If very tiny charges are used then it could become more important.

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Gargamel
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 Quote: Pressed in a blasting cap casing though and initiated by a primary explosive I think that smaller crystals are generally more sensitive

That's what it's about. In this place i like it to be sensitive. Only the powdered ETN is very messy to work with in comparison with large crystals.

PHILOU Zrealone
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Usually larger cristals of very sensitive explosives are more sensitive...because growing larger cristals induces more chances to get cristal latice abnomaly and inherent stress. The local stress induces a higher base level energy and thus less external energy is required to go above the activation energy at that specific point and set the explosive stuff off.

If the explosive is not too sensitive or not enough to be melt cast...then if the procedure is done cleanly avoiding air bubbles, the sensitivity will be lower than the powder/pressed material.

The powder pressed material will display a lot of air bubbles that will act as micro-balloons while the initiating detonating wave will pass through...each bubble becomes compressed adiabatically and generates a hot spot with very high internal temperature and pressure that activates the decomposition of surrounding explosive material.

PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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DutchChemistryBox
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Hello All,

I've some experiments on mind for which I need anhydrous sodium acetate.
Today I've recrystallized an amount from handwarmers, now I have the trihydrate.

I found the following in one of my books:
"This material can be converted to the anhydrous salt by heating slowly in a porcelain, nickel or iron dish, so that the salt liquefies. Steam is evolved and the mass again solidifies. Heating is now increased so that the salt melts again."

The book mentions an iron dish, this week I'll receive a stainless steel dish. Would it be a problem if I use this one? Or does it really have to be an iron one.

Does somebody know the answer, or should I give it a try?

Kind regards,

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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Special topics » Energetic Materials » Short question / quick answer - Thread Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues