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12332123
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[*] posted on 6-3-2014 at 04:53


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Does hydroxylammonium salt of azide, dinitrourea, dinitroguanidine exist? I havent found much information on them.


See http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1022503310689...

It seems that dinitrourea reacts with hydroxylamine to form hydroxynitrourea, and with hydrazine to nitrosemicarbazide.
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[*] posted on 6-3-2014 at 05:04


Quote: Originally posted by 12332123  

It seems that dinitrourea reacts with hydroxylamine to form hydroxynitrourea, and with hydrazine to nitrosemicarbazide.

How hydroxylamine solution can be prepared ?
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 03:54
Dissolving PIB


With a little search i have found that the bicycle tire inner tube is made out of PIB, so. i just took a small piece of that material, and dip it into some gasoline, but it looks like it can not be dissolved by gasoline, so i was wondering what else solvent can i use to dissolve that ?

[Edited on 7-3-2014 by underground]
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 04:10


Have you tried using hexane or pentane?

[Edited on 7-3-2014 by confused]
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 08:46


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
With a little search i have found that the bicycle tire inner tube is made out of PIB, so. i just took a small piece of that material, and dip it into some gasoline, but it looks like it can not be dissolved by gasoline, so i was wondering what else solvent can i use to dissolve that ?

[Edited on 7-3-2014 by underground]


PIB is soluble in gasoline (benzine) but if it is some layer of a pipe, it will need days to dissolve...if you had a block of PIB, just make it tol small pieces with a scissor
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 09:41


Quote: Originally posted by 12332123  
Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Does hydroxylammonium salt of azide, dinitrourea, dinitroguanidine exist? I havent found much information on them.


See http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A1022503310689...

It seems that dinitrourea reacts with hydroxylamine to form hydroxynitrourea, and with hydrazine to nitrosemicarbazide.


Ive just saw that before i saw your post, thx anyways.

Do you know any other routes to nitrosemicarbazide?

and for underground, have you tried acetone ?
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 10:20


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  

and for underground, have you tried acetone ?


PIB can not be dissolved by acetone

Quote: Originally posted by VladimirLem  

PIB is soluble in gasoline (benzine) but if it is some layer of a pipe, it will need days to dissolve...if you had a block of PIB, just make it tol small pieces with a scissor


I used gasoline (i guess it is different than benzine) from petrol stations, is this going to work or not ? Does it need pure benzine ?

[Edited on 7-3-2014 by underground]
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 12:42


Quote: Originally posted by underground  

I used gasoline (i guess it is different than benzine) from petrol stations, is this going to work or not ? Does it need pure benzine ?

[Edited on 7-3-2014 by underground]


jesus...i allways hated the way american people call this stuff...

just benzine/petrol for cars...
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 12:47


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
Quote: Originally posted by 12332123  

It seems that dinitrourea reacts with hydroxylamine to form hydroxynitrourea, and with hydrazine to nitrosemicarbazide.

How hydroxylamine solution can be prepared ?


Methanol. NH2OH.HCl. NaOH. Stirr till NaOH has dissolved and filter precipitated sodium chloride. Gives a methanolic hydroxylamine solution.
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[*] posted on 8-3-2014 at 08:55


Quote: Originally posted by The_Davster  
Quote: Originally posted by underground  
Quote: Originally posted by 12332123  

It seems that dinitrourea reacts with hydroxylamine to form hydroxynitrourea, and with hydrazine to nitrosemicarbazide.

How hydroxylamine solution can be prepared ?


Methanol. NH2OH.HCl. NaOH. Stirr till NaOH has dissolved and filter precipitated sodium chloride. Gives a methanolic hydroxylamine solution.


From were i can obtain NH2OH ?

Also for those who are interensted in BIP, read this topic
http://parazite.nn.fi/roguesci/index.php/t-1739.html
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[*] posted on 8-3-2014 at 08:59


I'm interested in dissolving PIB too.




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[*] posted on 8-3-2014 at 11:28


Quote: Originally posted by VladimirLem  

jesus...i allways hated the way american people call this stuff...

just benzine/petrol for cars...


So i correctly use that thing, correct ? It looks like for some reason benzine/petrol ( :P ) can not dissolve bicycle tire inner tube :(
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[*] posted on 8-3-2014 at 12:14


It seems that despite the confusion over petrol/gasoline/benzin pib should be soluble in either. But it could be difficult given the molecular weight. You may need small pieces and refluxed until it softens or dissolves. That would also be a good time to add the plasticizer. I found quicksilver's suggestion of bird repellent polybutene a good alternative.
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[*] posted on 9-3-2014 at 01:28


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
Quote: Originally posted by The_Davster  
Quote: Originally posted by underground  
Quote: Originally posted by 12332123  

It seems that dinitrourea reacts with hydroxylamine to form hydroxynitrourea, and with hydrazine to nitrosemicarbazide.

How hydroxylamine solution can be prepared ?


Methanol. NH2OH.HCl. NaOH. Stirr till NaOH has dissolved and filter precipitated sodium chloride. Gives a methanolic hydroxylamine solution.


From were i can obtain NH2OH ?

Also for those who are interensted in BIP, read this topic
http://parazite.nn.fi/roguesci/index.php/t-1739.html


That was NH2OH.HCl, hydroxylamine hydrochloride. no OTC source that I know, but it can be made, see old posts by I think Axt.
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[*] posted on 9-3-2014 at 08:11


does II salts of diamino/triamino guanidine exist? The interesting derivatives would be diamino/triamino dinitrate, which is mentioned in this patent.

http://www.google.com/patents/EP1121336A2?cl=en

These 2 compounds will have high gas production/ nitrogen content/ density/ and low sensitivity/cost/ and carbon content.

No other papers/patent or any report or research has mention these 2 compounds, or at least on google.

[Edited on 9-3-2014 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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[*] posted on 9-3-2014 at 14:52


Quote: Originally posted by The_Davster  

That was NH2OH.HCl, hydroxylamine hydrochloride. no OTC source that I know, but it can be made, see old posts by I think Axt.


I can not find anything about NH20H solutions

I found only some informations about how to form hydroxylamine hydrochloride from NM acetic acid and HCL. But i do not know if a solution of NH2OH.HCL can react with other nitrogroups like dinitrobiuret to for dihydroxylammonium dinitrobiuret, or dinitroguanidine to form hydroxylammonium dinitroguanidine e.t.c.
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[*] posted on 14-3-2014 at 12:10


Is there any energetic compound on hydroxygaunidine and its derivatives?

It can be protonated to produce salts like http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/h7654?lang...

I also think its derivatives would be very interesting/ energetic.
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[*] posted on 15-3-2014 at 04:33


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Is there any energetic compound on hydroxygaunidine and its derivatives?

It can be protonated to produce salts like http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/h7654?lang...

I also think its derivatives would be very interesting/ energetic.


Compared to guanidine, hydroxyguanidine represent a better oxidized moiety. Energetic material (salt or molecular compound) may have interesting energetic properties (performance) however when you realize that 50 mg of hydroxyguanidine sulfate salt cost 220 euro or 306 USD, any interesting applications for these compounds is lost until a new synthetic method is found to produce hydroxyguanidine derivatives in low cost.

Dany.

[Edited on 15-3-2014 by Dany]
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[*] posted on 15-3-2014 at 06:37


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
With a little search i have found that the bicycle tire inner tube is made out of PIB, so. i just took a small piece of that material, and dip it into some gasoline, but it looks like it can not be dissolved by gasoline, so i was wondering what else solvent can i use to dissolve that ?

[Edited on 7-3-2014 by underground]


Xylene also works. Some types of chewing gum contain PIB as a base. So if you want to isolate pure PIB dissolve as much impure PIB such as bike tire or chewing gum in xylene as possible. Then there will be a clear layer ontop of the xylene witch conatains the PIB. Then go ahead and extract this layer with a syringe or pipete. Then combine the PIB/xylene With acetone at a 50/50 ratio. This will then precipitate your pure PIB.
Then just Fish this up with a little match stick or something similar and dry it.

Btw if the rubber dosent dissolve in xylene its not PIB ;

Why you want to isolate PIB btw?
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[*] posted on 15-3-2014 at 11:32


Quote: Originally posted by Dany  
Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Is there any energetic compound on hydroxygaunidine and its derivatives?

It can be protonated to produce salts like http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/h7654?lang...

I also think its derivatives would be very interesting/ energetic.


Compared to guanidine, hydroxyguanidine represent a better oxidized moiety. Energetic material (salt or molecular compound) may have interesting energetic properties (performance) however when you realize that 50 mg of hydroxyguanidine sulfate salt cost 220 euro or 306 USD, any interesting applications for these compounds is lost until a new synthetic method is found to produce hydroxyguanidine derivatives in low cost.

Dany.

[Edited on 15-3-2014 by Dany]


Alright true, but, Sigma extremely over price everything.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/s849022?...

this compound can be synthesized from 2 extremely industrialized cheap compound - Nitropropane and formaldehyde, however they sell 50mg for nearly 100 dollars!

Do you have any information about my question 2 posts above?

Thanks
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[*] posted on 16-3-2014 at 03:12


Maybe Sigma-Aldrich are overpriced but you must take onto account the purity of the compound. It is true that a compound may be possess a facile synthesis but this is not all the story. Purifying the resulting products can be very challenging and tedious, so the compound may be very expensive. Other chemical company can sell chemicals with competitive price. I prefer TCI chemical when compared to Sigma-Aldrich.

For the second question, my quick search didn't result in any high energy materials based on hydroxyguanidine.

Dany.
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[*] posted on 16-3-2014 at 04:37


Quote: Originally posted by Dany  
Maybe Sigma-Aldrich are overpriced but you must take onto account the purity of the compound. It is true that a compound may be possess a facile synthesis but this is not all the story. Purifying the resulting products can be very challenging and tedious, so the compound may be very expensive. Other chemical company can sell chemicals with competitive price. I prefer TCI chemical when compared to Sigma-Aldrich.

For the second question, my quick search didn't result in any high energy materials based on hydroxyguanidine.

Dany.


Yes, ive also found TCI cheaper in many products.

I meant 2 post up as in this post, the diamino/triamino guanidine dinitrate salt.
Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
does II salts of diamino/triamino guanidine exist? The interesting derivatives would be diamino/triamino guanidine dinitrate, which is mentioned in this patent.

http://www.google.com/patents/EP1121336A2?cl=en

These 2 compounds will have high gas production/ nitrogen content/ density/ and low sensitivity/cost/ and carbon content.

No other papers/patent or any report or research has mention these 2 compounds, or at least on google.

[Edited on 9-3-2014 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]


^ When I said on google I meant my searches, you might find something else.

Also, the last time I purchase chemicals, I used an intermediate company, they search the market to find the cheapest pricing for the products I wanted out of countless chemical companies, and then they order them for me and send it to me, its much cheaper in the end if you only buy from 1 company because some company are better than others in producing one product. You just have to pay them little bit service fee.

[Edited on 16-3-2014 by DubaiAmateurRocketry]
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[*] posted on 16-3-2014 at 06:12


Funny :)
About two monthes ago I had the same ideas.

The compounds should be cheap but as not requested much their price is very high.

Like amino, diamino and triaminoguanidine or amino and diamino urea... it is only a mater to allow the free base to react with urea or guanidine...more volatile NH3 is freed from the reaction media (NH3 is more volatile than N2H4 or NH2OH).

As potent materials with increased density, stored energy and OB; there are also:
-hydroxyurea (HONH-C(=O)-NH2)
and
-dihydroxyurea (HONH-C(=O)-NHOH)

-hydroxyguanidine (NH2-C(=NH)-NHOH)
-dihydroxyguanidine (HONH-C(=NH)-NHOH)
and
-trihydroxyguanidine (HONH-C(=NOH)-NHOH)

Note that the basicity of such hydroxylamino derivatives will be less than urea and so very strong acids will be needed to make salts with them (nitrate, perchlorate, nitroformiates, tetranitroethandiates, dinitramides,...). There is a chance it doesn't work for the trihydroxyguanidine or dihydroxyurea.

They will eventually be acidic and form primary salts.

They might cyclise into 1,2,4,5-tetrazine derivatives especially the molecules bearing both amino/imino and hydroxylamino/hydroxylimino groups.

[Edited on 17-3-2014 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 17-3-2014 at 08:36


So dinitrate salts are possible?

Yes, however can we still protonate compounds like trihydroxyguanidine? will it be unstable?

Also, does hydroxyhydrazine exist ? or aminohydroxylamine.
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[*] posted on 17-3-2014 at 08:54
Don't want to continue sidetracking of "Tetranitomethane/toluene explosive mixture myth" thread, BUT:




Crazy thought- Anyone tried mixing a small % of microballoons into Hg(ONC)2 and pressing the mixture at a similar pressure as is known to "dead press" the straight material?




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