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joseph6355
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[*] posted on 30-3-2018 at 19:44


How hard is it to concentrate 53 % nitric acid to azeotropic concentration (68 %)?
I don't know how to set up my distillation apparatus and the fractionating column for this specific procedure.




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CobaltChloride
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[*] posted on 31-3-2018 at 10:40


Not too hard. The set up looks like the one in the picture. Collect the fraction from about 118 degrees C to 124 degrees C. This is your azeotropic nitric acid. I think you could also do a simple distillation here if you go slowly.

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[*] posted on 31-3-2018 at 19:14


Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Not too hard. The set up looks like the one in the picture. Collect the fraction from about 118 degrees C to 124 degrees C. This is your azeotropic nitric acid. I think you could also do a simple distillation here if you go slowly.

Thank you for responding. :D

Have you done this before?
Sorry to abuse your good will, but what are the approximate yield?

I'm asking because azeotropic nitric acid got very hard to get here where I live, but for some reason the 53 % concentration is very, very cheap and sold OTC with no limit for how much you can buy.
I'm not going to buy gallons of it, but instead I want to make it more economically viable to experiment since I work at a shitty job and most of my money goes to pay my college bills.
Realistically, much much 68% nitric acid would be obtained from a 5 liters bottle of the 53 % one? I'm not talking about theoretical yields though.




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[*] posted on 1-4-2018 at 05:37


Do you have access to 98% Sulfuric acid?
If so you could use the same distillation setup with a water-cooled liebig condenser and a 2:1 ratio of H2SO4/HNO3 in the distilling flask.

The sulphuric acid will hold the water and around 90% red fuming nitric acid will distill over.
You can then dilute this to 70% or whatever concentration you want by addition of water.






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[*] posted on 1-4-2018 at 05:52


Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355  
Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Not too hard. The set up looks like the one in the picture. Collect the fraction from about 118 degrees C to 124 degrees C. This is your azeotropic nitric acid. I think you could also do a simple distillation here if you go slowly.

Thank you for responding. :D

Have you done this before?
Sorry to abuse your good will, but what are the approximate yield?

I'm asking because azeotropic nitric acid got very hard to get here where I live, but for some reason the 53 % concentration is very, very cheap and sold OTC with no limit for how much you can buy.
I'm not going to buy gallons of it, but instead I want to make it more economically viable to experiment since I work at a shitty job and most of my money goes to pay my college bills.
Realistically, much much 68% nitric acid would be obtained from a 5 liters bottle of the 53 % one? I'm not talking about theoretical yields though.

I haven't done it yet as I don't need to in order to get nitric acid, but the procedure was taken from NileRed's video on making azeotropic nitric acid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBeo8nww21g&t=312s). More specifically, from the purification step at 5:25. You'd theoretically get about 3.68 liters of acid after distillation.

[Edited on 1-4-2018 by CobaltChloride]
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[*] posted on 1-4-2018 at 06:02


Quote: Originally posted by greenlight  
Do you have access to 98% Sulfuric acid?
If so you could use the same distillation setup with a water-cooled liebig condenser and a 2:1 ratio of H2SO4/HNO3 in the distilling flask.

The sulphuric acid will hold the water and around 90% red fuming nitric acid will distill over.
You can then dilute this to 70% or whatever concentration you want by addition of water.



This method has the disadvantage of producing nitric acid of less accurate concentration though.
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joseph6355
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[*] posted on 1-4-2018 at 07:23


Quote: Originally posted by greenlight  
Do you have access to 98% Sulfuric acid?
If so you could use the same distillation setup with a water-cooled liebig condenser and a 2:1 ratio of H2SO4/HNO3 in the distilling flask.

The sulphuric acid will hold the water and around 90% red fuming nitric acid will distill over.
You can then dilute this to 70% or whatever concentration you want by addition of water.

I thought about that. Honestly it isn't very economically efficient since 98% h2so4 isn't cheap.
I'm also kind of scare of the fuming nitric acid. Its very corrosive and almost everything it touches catches on fire instantly, including my cheap gloves that are rated for common acids.


Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355  
Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Not too hard. The set up looks like the one in the picture. Collect the fraction from about 118 degrees C to 124 degrees C. This is your azeotropic nitric acid. I think you could also do a simple distillation here if you go slowly.

Thank you for responding. :D

Have you done this before?
Sorry to abuse your good will, but what are the approximate yield?

I'm asking because azeotropic nitric acid got very hard to get here where I live, but for some reason the 53 % concentration is very, very cheap and sold OTC with no limit for how much you can buy.
I'm not going to buy gallons of it, but instead I want to make it more economically viable to experiment since I work at a shitty job and most of my money goes to pay my college bills.
Realistically, much much 68% nitric acid would be obtained from a 5 liters bottle of the 53 % one? I'm not talking about theoretical yields though.

I haven't done it yet as I don't need to in order to get nitric acid, but the procedure was taken from NileRed's video on making azeotropic nitric acid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBeo8nww21g&t=312s). More specifically, from the purification step at 5:25. You'd theoretically get about 3.68 liters of acid after distillation.

[Edited on 1-4-2018 by CobaltChloride]

I watched the video before posting the question.
Are you certain that I'll get 68% nitric at the end flask?
Thinking long term, its better for me to buy good quality glassware that will allow me to concentrate the acid instead of buying directly.
As I said, 30 USD for 5 liters of 53% that will yield somewhat on the 3 liter range would be very good since 1 L 68% NA costs about 40 USD alone here, and you also go to a watchlist. I don't like watchlists.

[Edited on 1/4/18 by joseph6355]




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[*] posted on 1-4-2018 at 07:47


I agree with the fact that it's better to buy good quality glassware rather than buying the nitric acid directly. I suggest looking at the seller deschem on eBay if you're interested in buying glassware. Since NileRed's acid was even more dilute than your acid and he did get 68% nitric acid in the receiving flask, you should also get 68%. If you want some proof it is at that concentration, do as NileRed did and measure its density.
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[*] posted on 1-4-2018 at 08:06


I was just about to write that you can get a fairly accurate idea of the concentration using the density. :)

Heres a calculator which takes into account ambient temperature as well:

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/nitrictble2.cgi?submit=Entr...




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[*] posted on 10-4-2018 at 08:30


Quote: Originally posted by greenlight  
I was just about to write that you can get a fairly accurate idea of the concentration using the density. :)

Heres a calculator which takes into account ambient temperature as well:

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/nitrictble2.cgi?submit=Entr...

Thank you! :)




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[*] posted on 10-4-2018 at 09:11


Is recrystallizing trinitrophenol from non-distilled water something stupid? Will it form its metal picrates from the ions in the water? Is the amount formed dangerous?



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[*] posted on 10-4-2018 at 10:01


Hello , im looking for some alternative fuels for Ammonium nitrate. So far i tried petrol , hexamine and wax. Any other fuel easy obtainable ?
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[*] posted on 10-4-2018 at 11:37


Quote: Originally posted by feedme94  
Hello , im looking for some alternative fuels for Ammonium nitrate. So far i tried petrol , hexamine and wax. Any other fuel easy obtainable ?

Isnt AN the oxidizer and petrol the fuel?
There are other nitrate salts that are easily available.

Regarding fuel alternatives, you could try methane, oil (vegetable, mineral oil and fuel oil), kerosene... Some of them aren't ideal but they could be used.
If you are aiming for balanced OB, you would need to change the proportions for each different fuel and mix the stoichiometric amount.

What is the final product that you are trying to obtain?

[Edited on 10/4/18 by joseph6355]




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[*] posted on 10-4-2018 at 17:04


Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355  
Quote: Originally posted by feedme94  
Hello , im looking for some alternative fuels for Ammonium nitrate. So far i tried petrol , hexamine and wax. Any other fuel easy obtainable ?

Isnt AN the oxidizer and petrol the fuel?
There are other nitrate salts that are easily available.

Regarding fuel alternatives, you could try methane, oil (vegetable, mineral oil and fuel oil), kerosene... Some of them aren't ideal but they could be used.
If you are aiming for balanced OB, you would need to change the proportions for each different fuel and mix the stoichiometric amount.

What is the final product that you are trying to obtain?

[Edited on 10/4/18 by joseph6355]


Im testing some ANFO charges. The best so far is AN with Hexamine but im using it as booster for AN with Wax. Im looking for something to replace the wax. Kerosene or fuel oil doesnt seem good cause of their cooling effect while evaporate
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[*] posted on 21-4-2018 at 12:59


The 3-nitrogroup of 2,3,4,6-tetranitroaniline is easily displaced by nucleophiles:

1. Reaction with water results in 3-hydroxy 2,4,6 trinitroaniline (Chemistry of powder and explosives, T.L Davis, page 173)
2. Reaction with alcoholic ammonia results in 3-amino 2,4,6 trinitroaniline (Chemistry of powder and explosives, T.L Davis, page 173)
2. Reaction with azide results in 3-azido 2,4,6 trinitroaniline (which can rearrange to a furoxan)
3. Reaction with methanolic hydroxylamine results in 5-amino-4,6-dinitrobenzofuroxan (https://doi.org/10.1023/A:1023049531550)

How would 2,3,4,6-tetranitroaniline react with alcoholic hydrazine? Any ideas? Presumably, 3-hydrazino 2,4,6 trinitroaniline would form first, would it rearrange internally or would it react preferably with the 3-nitrogroup of another 2,3,4,6-tetranitroaniline molecule?
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[*] posted on 21-4-2018 at 15:16
EM Substitute for experimenting with plasticizers


What easily available substitute can i use instead ETN/PETN for doing some tests with various plasticizers ? (plasticizers from gum/rat glue)
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[*] posted on 24-4-2018 at 11:11


Today i tested 4 different types of flash powder.

Kclo4 / Al 7 / 3
Kclo4 / Al /S 7 / 2 / 1
Kclo3 / Al 7 / 3
Kclo3 / Al /S 7 / 2 / 1

kclo4 is way more stable. Non of them, even with S wont go bang with impact on metal surface.
From the other side both kclo3 will go bang on impact, just the one with S a bit easier. All of them i think sounds the same. Maybe the kclo3 / al / s sounded more like a thunder. I think it was faster

Any other ratios that might work better ?
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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 10:25


This might interest you:

It's from Takeo Shimizu's book "Fireworks, the Art Science and Technique".
He claims the loudest combination of the three components is 64% KClO4, 23% dark Al and 13% S.
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[*] posted on 25-4-2018 at 15:17


Thank you so much Dornier !!! Not only helped me to achieve what im looking for (noise) but also you helped me save a lot of KCLO4 and Dark Al which are expensive unlike Sulfur. Gonna try it soon
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[*] posted on 27-4-2018 at 11:20


...falsified by direct pressure measurements (thin paper tubes), unfortunately, KClO4/Al is better than any other non-exotic mix - and much safer
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[*] posted on 28-4-2018 at 10:11


Another question. Can i store 65% HNO3 , H2SO4 and 31-33% HCl in PET Plastic bottles ?They are brown but you can see through them
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[*] posted on 28-4-2018 at 10:20


Quote: Originally posted by feedme94  
Another question. Can i store 65% HNO3 , H2SO4 and 31-33% HCl in PET Plastic bottles ?They are brown but you can see through them


No. PET is a polyester plastic, and strong mineral acids will cause it to break down.




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[*] posted on 28-4-2018 at 11:07




What is the best plastic to store those acids , i dont really want to use glass as it breaks easily

[Edited on 28-4-2018 by feedme94]
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[*] posted on 28-4-2018 at 12:06


Plast from bleach from store container is pretty resistant. Even against chlorine and chlorine oxides. Tested in chlorate cell device. Else plast were dissolved. For example for electric uses.



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[*] posted on 29-4-2018 at 03:04


We know what type it is ? Because i want to buy little 200ml bottles so i can handle them. The one that i have them now are 5L bottles
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