Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: How to neutralize TATP
Gooferking Science
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 97
Registered: 17-7-2013
Location: Somewhere in Kansas, USA...
Member Is Offline

Mood: Halogenated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:12
How to neutralize TATP


Hello. I just made some TATP. It hasn't crystallized out into the flask I am making it in yet, but I am really scared it is going to explode! Is there any way I can neutralize it? If not, can someone walk me through how to safely store it and detonate it? Any help is appreciated!

Edit: I am going to change the title from How to neutralize TATP (please respond quickly!!!) to How to neutralize TATP since the problem has been solved. That way people won't get a false sense of urgency.

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by Gooferking Science]

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by Gooferking Science]




Check out my YouTube channel! www.youtube.com/user/gooferking
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
*****




Posts: 1663
Registered: 30-9-2013
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline

Mood: Heavily protonated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:29


Please write what your solution consists of exactly, how long ago it was made and what quantity?

My gut feeling if it hasn't crystallised yet is to dilute it heavily with ice water, hopefully nothing precipitates, but I'm no expert in this reaction... hopefully somebody replies to you soon with better advice. Should at least stall things in the meantime.

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by deltaH]




Mind your step or step your mind. Website: www.ideashack.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Metacelsus
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2477
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:32


Disclaimer: I have never worked with organic peroxides (and do not plan to)!

If no crystals have formed yet, I would add concentrated sodium hydroxide solution to remove the acidic conditions necessary for the reaction.

If crystals have formed yet, I would dissolve them in any convenient organic solvent and dispose of the solution in a safe way.




As below, so above.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Gooferking Science
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 97
Registered: 17-7-2013
Location: Somewhere in Kansas, USA...
Member Is Offline

Mood: Halogenated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:34


Oh sorry silly me... It was made about 30 min ago. I mixed 35ml of acetone and 65ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide. I then added 35 ml of 31% HCl to it slowly in an ice bath. It is now reacting, and it isn't finished yet (I think) if it isn't finished reacting, do you think I can neutralize the acid in it with sodium bicarbonate before it completely reacts? The acid is the catalyst to the reaction.



Check out my YouTube channel! www.youtube.com/user/gooferking
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Gooferking Science
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 97
Registered: 17-7-2013
Location: Somewhere in Kansas, USA...
Member Is Offline

Mood: Halogenated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:36


Cheddite cheese - thank you, I will go and do that. I will give an update when finished.



Check out my YouTube channel! www.youtube.com/user/gooferking
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
*****




Posts: 1663
Registered: 30-9-2013
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline

Mood: Heavily protonated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:37


You lucky it's so dilute, quickly add to large volume of water (bucket) then neutralise with bicarbonate, then dispose of the liquid safely.

MAKE sure there are no crystals formed!

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by deltaH]




Mind your step or step your mind. Website: www.ideashack.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
golfpro
Banned





Posts: 179
Registered: 18-5-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Cap Sensitive

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:46


You'll get .01 grams of TATP from that low concentration hydrogen peroxide.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
*****




Posts: 1663
Registered: 30-9-2013
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline

Mood: Heavily protonated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 13:53


Cheddite Cheese, please don't advise people to mix concentrated strong bases with concentrated strong acids where sensitive explosives may be present.

The standard methodology is dilute strongly first in ice water, then neutralise with a sodium bicarbonate.

In this case, probably no harm no fowl for reasons I don't think we should elaborate on, ok golfpro...?

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by deltaH]




Mind your step or step your mind. Website: www.ideashack.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Gooferking Science
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 97
Registered: 17-7-2013
Location: Somewhere in Kansas, USA...
Member Is Offline

Mood: Halogenated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 14:09


Okay, it is has been safely diluted and neutralized. I can relax now. I am never going to make sensitive explosives again! It was a very scary feeling that I got suddenly. The kind of feeling you get when you could be killed or injured by something...



Check out my YouTube channel! www.youtube.com/user/gooferking
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
*****




Posts: 1663
Registered: 30-9-2013
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline

Mood: Heavily protonated

[*] posted on 25-10-2013 at 14:13


Happy to hear it Gooferking, make sure to dispose of it safely. Even diluted and neutralised, if you store it for a long time, some products may still form, best not to leave it hanging around.

[Edited on 25-10-2013 by deltaH]




Mind your step or step your mind. Website: www.ideashack.org
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
blargish
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 166
Registered: 25-9-2013
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: AZIDES AZIDES AZIDES

[*] posted on 4-11-2013 at 09:06


I performed this same synthesis of TATP and directly filtered the acidic solution (with the TATP precipitate). I then proceeded to pour a solution of sodium bicarbonate through the TATP (while it was still wet) in the filter to neutralize it without using a water wash. I detonated and deflagrated the TATP without incident; however, I was wondering if this was safe. Could sodium chloride have remained in the filter along with the TATP, and could this have altered the sensitivity?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Thread Split
4-11-2013 at 11:18
Adas
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction

[*] posted on 6-11-2013 at 09:31


Quote: Originally posted by blargish  
I performed this same synthesis of TATP and directly filtered the acidic solution (with the TATP precipitate). I then proceeded to pour a solution of sodium bicarbonate through the TATP (while it was still wet) in the filter to neutralize it without using a water wash. I detonated and deflagrated the TATP without incident; however, I was wondering if this was safe. Could sodium chloride have remained in the filter along with the TATP, and could this have altered the sensitivity?


Sodium chloride is quite inert. When I used to make TATP, I washed it with so much water that there was no acid left. Better than neutralising, which generates useless heat and you have to wash it anyways to get the pure product.




Rest In Pieces!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Thread Moved
6-11-2013 at 09:39
Antiswat
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1379
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline

Mood: dangerously practical

[*] posted on 6-11-2013 at 10:03


adding heat into this reaction can and might be the last thing you do, although this is in small amounts..
but let me get this straight .. you made AP before you understood fully how to neutralize it??? i really try hard at this moment to contain myself, as TATP is the exact compound that obliterates the entire amateur world of energetics, as people tend to mix it up for gigs and then hope they dont die
this is a very dangerous compound.. how can you not have read and understood the synthesis at least once before even deciding to get hands on the chemicals alone?

for the record -- the procedure on removing these kinds of things are either to insert a initiator in the wet crystal solid (if it formed) and the liquid to be spread out on ground with no use, this has been done with also crystals, washed away with huge amounts of water and spread out to slowly and undisturbed decompose

again, the last part of chemistry you wanna wave about at reversing 'think before do' is energetics, it could be your last, and it has been the last thing for a good handful of people throughout the time!!




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top