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bfesser
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[*] posted on 11-12-2013 at 09:29
Nitric Acid and Silver Nitrate


I'm getting really tired of the daily new topics on making nitric acid for the purpose of preparing silver nitrate or refining silver metal. I'm going to start referring posters to this list, and may even close the worst of them—particularly those opened despite the poster's knowledge of existing threads.

If you've been redirected to this thread and/or your topic has been closed, take it as a hint to read through everything listed below before making any new posts on the subject. You will likely find that any questions you can think of have already been answered at least a dozen times before.

Making nitric acid
Is there a way to dissolve silver without HNO3?
Silver Nitrate Synthesis
golfpro's Nitric Acid for Beginners
Selling Silver Nitrate?
Silver Nitrate crystallization from water
Purifying Silver Nitrate
Nitric acid/silver nitrate stains
Confirming Silver or Silver nitrate method for production
Contaminated silver nitrate solution
Unexpected aggressive reaction build up with silver nitrate
Silver Nitrate Calculation/maths check
Making silver nitrate - impure silver
silver nitrate
Silver nitrate stain removal
[more to come...]

Note: Don't expect this list to be ordered in any particular way. I'm not going to do every bloody thing for you. Put in the effort yourself.

Final Note: The majority of questions seem to be coming from those who have little to no interest in chemistry, but who greedily seek wealth through spoon-feeding. As a result, don't expect any mercy. There are plenty of resources out there for those who care not about the science, but only wish to refine silver for profit. Seek those out, and please spare us the nuisance.




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bismuthate
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[*] posted on 11-12-2013 at 12:43


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6hPgGV_qAg
Great video by nurdrage.
P.S. I agree that this does need a sticky.

[Edited on 11-12-2013 by bismuthate]




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[*] posted on 11-12-2013 at 13:48


There are two much better videos (in my opinion) by our own UnintentionalChaos and Gooferking Science on YouTube. I recall several others, but can't seem to find them at the moment. Perhaps I'll put a little more effort into this topic and try to make it more of an authoritative—or at the very least, useful—index of the nitric acid & silver nitrate topics and amateur resources both on the fora and elsewhere. I will put a few of the best topics into my compendium, but a more in-depth summary could be useful.



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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 11-12-2013 at 14:04


Hey as long as we're plugging member videos, here's mine! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYDFplw8iKg

It's almost identical to Gooferking's, except I use ammonium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate.
Even if the process is the same, I always enjoy watching other people's videos on a particular subject. Everyone puts their own unique spin on things, and each video has its own nuggets of wisdom.
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Pyro
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[*] posted on 12-12-2013 at 12:08


I have a small suggestion: why not split that list into 2 parts: make HNO3 and Make AgNO3.

My favorite nitric acid prep. is UC's




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[*] posted on 14-12-2013 at 12:12


I agree with pyro, they should be two separate threads.
UC's nitric acid prep is my favorite as well




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[*] posted on 14-12-2013 at 12:33


not 2 separate threads, just organised into 2 sections...



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[*] posted on 14-12-2013 at 14:31


That would work as well. Any way to separate the two topics would be good.



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[*] posted on 19-12-2013 at 16:38


I'll second the idea to separate two stickies... One HNO3, and the other Ag(NO3)2 (i think :)




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[*] posted on 19-12-2013 at 16:46


Quote: Originally posted by zenosx  
I'll second the idea to separate two stickies... One HNO3, and the other Ag(NO3)2 (i think :)

Silver nitrate is AgNO3. Silver(II) nitrate is extremely unstable.




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[*] posted on 19-12-2013 at 16:55


Great, it seems that everyone who cares to has given their opinion on the matter. But unless any of you create your own topics and put in the work, I'm doing this the way I like and in my own time. I'll gladly take all suggestions into consideration, but don't expect this topic to be directed by popular opinion. I appreciate the interest, and will try to put more into this as soon as possible.

For the record, it's AgNO3.




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[*] posted on 20-12-2013 at 16:23


Nitric acid:
SM
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=27773
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25209
YT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEEjNQN2dIQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yE7v4wkuZU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6GpMQ98u8I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imR0cDqSwec

Silver Nitrate:
SM
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=27492
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25328
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=27793
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=26118
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22590
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=21856
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=21762
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=21739
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19668
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19193
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=18153
YT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6hPgGV_qAg


etc... there could also be a part on getting common nitrate salts, making other nitrates,...
I'm willing to do the work, but not tonight, it's 1AM




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[*] posted on 24-12-2013 at 10:24


Using 4Ag+6HNO3 --> 4AgNO3 + 3H2O + NO2 + NO

54g of Silver needs 48g of HNO3, or 38ml approx. I dilute it to 55% and use hot for the reaction. Would 80ml of 55% Nitric Acid really fully react with the silver or would the products dilute the remaining acid towards the end of the reaction to require and excess of nitric to fully react the silver?

Thanks
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[*] posted on 25-1-2014 at 13:25


If the silver is in powder form, it will fully react in a relative short time.
If the silver is in the granulated/larger pieces of metal form, the reaction will take place much more slower and it will take a longer time to consume all the silver...
However, if you want that reaction to be complete (no silver metal remaining), you should use just a little bit more nitric acid...

[Edited on 25-1-2014 by DoctorZET]
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[*] posted on 25-1-2014 at 14:19


Now I have a question:
How to make white fuming nitric acid (with N2O5 dissolved).
I was make this by the next method (it's very hard, and does not involves big quantities):
I make NO2 in a big glass container where an electrical arc (50Kv) ionize a mixture of air and oxigen gas (additional oxigen):
O2+N2 =(high temp)=> 2 NO + O2 => 2NO2
Next I cool the gas in an flask surrounded by -18*C icy salt water (CaCl2+H2O) to form N2O4.
2NO2<=(low temp)=>>>N2O4 :)
The next step is a very nice reaction:
I make ozone (O3) from ordinary oxigen(O2) in an ozonificator using the same 50Kv resonant tesla transformer:
3O2=(cold plasma)=> 2O2 + 2[O] => 2O3
I notice that not all the O2 is transformed in O3, ozone have actualy a concentration about 10% in O3+O2 mixture.
Then I bubble this mixture in N2O4 to form N2O5, a white solid (similar to a salt) at room temperature.
N2O4+O3==>2NO2+O2+[O] =slow=> NO2+O2+[NO3] =fast=> O2 + O2N-O-NO2 , where the "O2N-O-NO2" is actualy that "N2O5", the nitric anhidride.
Whell...I've got just 8-9 grams of N2O5 in 2 days (36 hours work, and a lot of electricity consumed, seriously).
There is another way to made this chemical (who NOT involve dehidration of nitric acid with P5O10) ?
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[*] posted on 29-3-2014 at 21:35


Does this method work? Ozone reacting with N2O4?



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[*] posted on 30-3-2014 at 03:35


http://nitrogen.atomistry.com/nitrogen_pentoxide.html
Heres a nice link with a few different methods. (no exact procedures though)
Zyklonb, yup that reaction will work.




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[*] posted on 30-3-2014 at 05:32


Great, thanks bismuthate!
Soon to make an ozone generator....




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[*] posted on 30-3-2014 at 07:40


Have anyone tried purifying 70% HNO3 with P2O5? phosphuric acid's boils around 150 where as HNO3 around 80 so it looks possible.
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[*] posted on 30-3-2014 at 09:10


Wouldn't it be easier to just distill it with sulfuric acid?



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[*] posted on 30-3-2014 at 09:33


i have P2O5
i figured out for 10mL 62% HNO3 i needed 10.8g P2O5
so i got my P2O5 and measured out 10 mL HNO3
added about 0.2g P2O5
whooosh
that stuff is potent, i already cooled the HNO3 down and it was starting to raise in temperature
think i managed to add like... 3-4 grammes IN TOTAL over many times, like 8 times or some just so the glass wouldnt crack, extremely intensive heat that stuff gives off when reacting with water
not sure but i think once it reached 60*C

also HNO3 99.9% i recall as being 119*C or some as its BP?

i really cannot imagine how one would go with a large scale addition of P2O5 to HNO3




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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 30-3-2014 at 09:43


Verrrry slowly is my guess. Not very practical, but possible.



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[*] posted on 2-4-2014 at 06:07


Is it possible to make anhydrous nitric acid by the nitrate salt sulfuric acid distillation method, but with a strong excess of sulfuric acid?

[edit] Anyone??

[Edited on 3-4-2014 by Zyklonb]




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[*] posted on 11-4-2014 at 10:59


There is an azeotrope of nitric acid with water at 70%, so you will need a vacuum distillation to get nearly anhydrous acid. You will also probably have to distill it more than once.
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[*] posted on 11-4-2014 at 11:05


No, sulfuric acid has a much stronger affinity for water, so with excess sulfuric acid, one can get near anhydrous, I just wanted to know if anhydrous was possible, with a stronger excess of sulfuric.



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