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Author: Subject: Nitric Acid and Silver Nitrate
DoctorZET
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[*] posted on 11-4-2014 at 12:18


If you add to a nitrate salt (fine powdered) some SO3 at a very low temperature and high pressure (not to high, 2-4 atm is enough), you could get in a long period of time (very loooong period) some traces of N2O5... but is not a good method if you want make some signifiant quantities of N2O5...

My big problem is that I can not find a better method of making N2O5 (without of using P2O5 because I can make this chemical very hard - look in the phosphorus section ~LINK: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=65... ~ from where I got white phosphorus, I'm sure you will find that ammusant)...an other instead of bubbling a rich ozone containing mixture (approx: 20-30% O3 70-80% O2) in a long flask filled with N2O4 (liquid)...

And my second problem is that I not have an actual source for making nitrates or N-compounds... I using the freaking N2 from air and O2 from air and water...and for the amino-compounds I use NH4HCO3, yes that's my source of ammonia...baking powder :)

An other problem...wich I can not solve yet...is that I need N2O5 for organic reactions (to avoid using H2SO4)...and I need to be as pure as possible, to avoid side-reactions with NO2 or other impurities...and because of it's high-purity, I can dissolve white crystals of N2O5 in water, until I have HNO3 100%, and then I can dissolve N2O5 in HNO3 until I have a saturated solution...so I can get a form of pure white fuming nitric acid wich is hard to get through other methods...but I also need a better method, because I spend 24H just to make a few milliliters (35-40 ml) of white fuming HNO3...that's freaking annoying...

Soooo...if is somebody here who can tell me an other-ways-to-whiteN2O5, I'll be very happy :D
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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 12-4-2014 at 06:10


N2O5 can be made from N2O4 and ozone.
Here's some more methods:http://nitrogen.atomistry.com/nitrogen_pentoxide.html




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[*] posted on 12-4-2014 at 08:10


The thread bfesser should have locked. Do you really think it was intended to be a place to ask all the methods for preparing N2O5 from air and I don't know, a burned out match, no doubt for RDX (from ammonium bicarbonate of course)? And in response post the same links over and over? I'm obviously the only one who despises new members (who post) more and more every year, but still...



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DoctorZET
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[*] posted on 15-4-2014 at 04:19


Well, I'm sorry for the stains leaved on the wall of this forum ... but, over all, this is a place to ask about nitric acid, its compounds and how to make those two ... I know that all of you are good chemists ... and I hope I'm good too ... but I'm certainly not the best one ...
Wack, please, the next time you will pick on somebody to haggle him, be more patient, just to see if him really worth to be argued...

And, Zyklonb ...a lot of thank's for that link ... is very useful to me. :D
Now I can make a lot of N2O5 in a shorter amount of time. And I need just a few grams of Ag...that's easy ;)
Also I'm wondering if I can use mercury nitrate instead of silver nitrate ... I will test that...
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[*] posted on 15-7-2014 at 19:01


Yay for the P2O5 method!

Just dissolve the P2O5 into some phosphoric acid, yes it will turn some of the P2O5 into phosphoric acid but its much much safer than pouring the aqueous acid onto P2O5 directly. Use enough P2O5 and I think you will make NO2.... damn P2O5 just wants water I guess...




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[*] posted on 10-2-2015 at 21:00
EASY NITRIC ACID


Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
There is an azeotrope of nitric acid with water at 70%, so you will need a vacuum distillation to get nearly anhydrous acid. You will also probably have to distill it more than once.



Nitric acid production - potassium nitrate (1 M) + H2SO4 (1 M) in distillation setup. Use CaCl2 trap to exclude moisture. Distill until
no more liquid comes across. This is essentially white fuming nitric
acid. After sitting a few days, NO2 will accumulate -> red fuming acid.
Using equimolar amounts keeps product very nearly anhydrous, as H2SO4
is twice amount actually needed . This does not have large amounts of
free nitrogen oxides, however, seems to work quite well in any prep
calling for 'fuming nitric acid'.
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[*] posted on 10-2-2015 at 21:22


More on nitric acid..... if one wishes to make nitric acid from easily bought starting materials, the following is very easy.

Basis: Ammonia can be oxidized to nitric oxide (NO) quite readily by passing ammonia + air (or O2) over copper, heated
to a dull red heat. NO produced mixed w/ more air -> NO2 -> +water -> nitric acid (+ more NO, which can be recirculated).
I 'Y' ed together ammonia + air, then passed mixture into 0.25 inch copper tubing, in which I had stuffed an 18 inch length
with BARE fine (34 ga.) copper wire. Purpose was to create reasonably large copper surface area. The 'stuffed' part of the
copper tubing was coiled with 2 ft. straight tails at each end. Coiled part placed in metal can, containing charcoal that had
been ignited and was glowing a dull red. This effectively heated copper tubing. Output end of Cu tubing connected to flexible
plastic tubing -> bubbler in a 100 ml beaker. I ran this until I had yellow appearing liquid present, then distilled to obtain
azeotropic nitric acid containing about 68% HNO3.
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[*] posted on 11-2-2015 at 15:14


I'm sure that I'm the only person responding so far, because no one else has managed to pick themselves off the floor yet. That's a pretty cool setup (your second post).

So...what was the yield? Did you take pictures/video/etc.? What type of plastic tubing did you use? How did you keep from melting the plastic tubing? Did you have trouble with the copper tubing oxidizing? Did you need to allow time for the NO to react to form NO2? How was your ammonia prepared? Was it anhydrous, etc.?

I managed to fill a bottle with NO from a reactor, but I noticed that it takes at least a couple of minutes to fully form NO2 after the gasses have cooled down. Reacting the NO2 with water produces more NO, which takes even more time to form NO2...you get the idea.
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[*] posted on 11-2-2015 at 15:42



Condense N2O4 to a liquid. Add it to water, it will sink to the bottom, then bubble oxygen or dry air into the solution through both the N2O4 and the water/dilute nitric acid. 99% HNO3 can be produced this way.
The overall reaction is:
N2O4 + H2O + .5 O2 → 2 HNO3

This is ideal because it doesn't allow NO to be formed.
Refs for everything I've posted can be found in Absorption Of Nitrous Gases.


Quote:

When liquid nitrogen tetroxide is added to a small quantity
of water a separation into two layers occurs. The upper
layer consists of nitric acid containing dissolved nitrogen
tetroxide, while the lower bluish-green layer consists mainly
of nitrogen trioxide
2N8O« + H2O :;::^N2O3 + 2HN0, .
If, however, oxygen is bubbled through the mixture, the
latter assumes an orange-yellow colour and the tipper layer
is found to contain nitric acid of 95-99 per cent. HNOa—
while the lower lay




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[*] posted on 11-2-2015 at 19:19


Thanks, that's an interesting link. After reading through it, I can see that NO oxidises faster in air as its concentration goes up.
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[*] posted on 5-5-2015 at 14:57


MM that equation you quote is hard to read, and it's hard to read in the book, too. It looks to me like it should be

2N2O4 + H20 <-> N2O3 + 2HNO3

What should be N2O3 looks like N2O4 in the book, which can't be right. So the lower layer turns blue because of this reaction. I wonder what a "small amount of water" means, I mean, I wonder if you can make stoichiometric amounts of HNO3 this way.

It sounds simple to do, and I wonder if it could be a useful way to make nitric acid (concentrated at that). The standard procedure of using H2SO4 plus nitrates requires all glass equipment and messing with hot H2SO4. NaNO2, which could be used as a source of NO2+NO, costs $5/lb on ebay.

This is indeed an interesting book, I've been looking at it on and off for some time.




Any other SF Bay chemists?
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[*] posted on 7-5-2015 at 18:15


Yeah the format is strange. It looks fine on my computer but not my phone.
The reaction is this:
N2O4 + 1/2 H2O --> HNO3 + 1/2 N2O3
Then:
N2O3 + H2O + O2 --> 2 HNO3.
Cancel out the intermediates and those shown twice and you get the condensed reaction I posted above.
Despite me wanting to do the reaction again I've only tried it once, got 94% IIRC.
I do have quite a lot of sodium nitrite so I should give it another go sometime soon.
Let me know if you try it. Distillation of a nitrate salt and sulfuric acid is just so easy it makes this seem like a waist.

[Edited on 8-5-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]




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[*] posted on 11-5-2015 at 09:06


I'm going to try it, but I'm waiting to receive my NaNO2 from ebay. It's very slow delivery, and I'm getting impatient. This should be fun. I've been inspired somewhat also by woelen's video on the NO+O2 reaction. I may get some kids involved, we'll be careful.



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[*] posted on 20-5-2015 at 12:02


Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations  

................
Let me know if you try it. Distillation of a nitrate salt and sulfuric acid is just so easy it makes this seem like a waist.

[Edited on 8-5-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]


In fact, that is so true that long ago the U.S. military used to have a publication describing that as the first step in manufacturing improvised explosives, for soldiers/agents caught behind enemy lines. It's foolproof and starts with easily obtained materials. It doesn't get any better than that.





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[*] posted on 27-8-2015 at 23:31


This morning I did a modified version of distilling nitrate salts with an acid. Right now I don't have any concentrated sulfuric acid in stock, only 36%. So I used phosphoric acid, which I have quite concentrated. And guess what? Phosphoric acid works, too, it's a passable substitute for sulfuric acid.

The nitric acid I've synthesized was quite concentrated, it reacted with copper with "the fox's tail" (NO2) forming.




Smells like ammonia....
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[*] posted on 11-9-2015 at 17:38


Brother of A look at Vogel Analytical Chemistry, there is a Chapter What if a Refre the reactivity of the groups. The table will display the next periodic Cu, Ag, Au and Rg this is the copper group, in most cases reactions that occur with copper occur with other but in terms of reactivity can vary the reaction kinetics ok? silver necklaces are usually black with time, this is to be formed on the surface of silver sulphate on the surface, to a silver chain be eroded it would take years then it may be very time consuming its reaction with sulfuric acid despite being a strong acid a reactivity and slow dissociation to have two stages. I believe that the nitric acid and the preferred as being more practical,it reduces reduces hydrogen, formano silver nitrate 100% soluble in water, in sequence with hydrochloric acid to precipitate silver chloride having the solution again pure nitric acid in the solution with the sulfate do not know how would have to do the math to indicate that the viability peace.

My inglish is suck

[Edited on 12-9-2015 by howtomake]

[Edited on 12-9-2015 by howtomake]
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[*] posted on 22-2-2017 at 11:00


This video is a simple way to prepare nitric acid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBeo8nww21g
And then turn it into silver nitrate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EruzAVv2Odc




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[*] posted on 8-3-2017 at 21:53


Nitric acid can make the iron passivation and not continue to corrosion. This is a colorless or yellow transparent liquid oil, is a kind of very unstable material, the impact would happen by high temperature, at the same time, to produce the decomposition of gas generation. The volume of a gas inflation, produce sudden violent blast. So nitroglycerine is a kind of high explosives. Nitrification military explosives with more, 4, 6 2-trinitrotoluene (TNT). It is by the toluene and nitric acid and strong sulfuric acid reaction system, is a kind of yellow flakes, explosive, medicinal properties stable, hygroscopicity the advantages of small, used to do shells, hand grenades, mines and torpedo the explosives such as mining, etc, it can also be used for blasting homework.
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[*] posted on 9-3-2017 at 04:13


Wow. You are a very smart chemistry person. :o
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