Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Making barium nitrate from barium carbonate without nitric acid
Jmap science
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 19-10-2013
Location: Florida
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 13:49
Making barium nitrate from barium carbonate without nitric acid


I do not have any nitric acid but I do have potassium and strontium nitrates. How do I make barium nitrate from barium carbonate. I was wondering if there was a reaction to make barium nitrate without nitric acid or nitrogen oxides.

I will use the barium nitrate to make nitric acid by addition of H2SO4. The flask would be chilled and filtered to make conc. nitric acid.

I have been working on a way to make conc. nitric acid from a conc. acid and potassium nitrate without distillation. I got the idea from chemistry hideout. I want to improve on it.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
TheChemiKid
National Hazard
****




Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2013
Location: /root/
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 13:58


This should be posted in beginnings, just search on google, and with a tiny bit of you can figure this out.

Add hydrochloric acid to make barium chloride, then add to a hot solution of sodium nitrate and let cool. This was stated on wikipedia.

This other method may not work, but you could try adding copper nitrate to the barium carbonate.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Brain&Force
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 854
Registered: 13-11-2013
Location: the f-block
Member Is Offline

Mood: I'm trying to think but nothing happens!

[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 15:09


Quote: Originally posted by TheChemiKid  
...you could try adding copper nitrate to the barium carbonate.


Won't work. Barium carbonate is insoluble.

A similar synthesis and distillation has been done before with calcium nitrate and sulfuric acid. Don't waste your valuable barium.





can you read this?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Thread Moved
22-1-2014 at 15:28
phlogiston
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 613
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: flatland
Member Is Offline

Mood: Somniculosus

[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 15:45


Dissolve in molten ammonium nitrate. Research well before attempting this, because melting ammonium nitrate can be dangerous.



-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bismuthate
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 667
Registered: 28-9-2013
Location: the island of stability
Member Is Offline

Mood: self reacting

[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 15:49


How about NO2 and barium oxide from the decomposition of barium carbonate.



I'm not a liar, I'm just an enthusiastic celebrant of opposite day.
I post pictures of chemistry on instagram as bismuthate. http://iconosquare.com/bismuthate
or this viewer if you don't have an instagram (it sucks though) http://web.stagram.com/n/bismuthate
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Jmap science
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 19-10-2013
Location: Florida
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 16:14


Would barium carbonate and potassium nitrate work?
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
TheChemiKid
National Hazard
****




Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2013
Location: /root/
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 16:24


No. Barium Carbonate is insoluble in water and basically anything else.

Go for the calcium nitrate instead of the barium nitrate, but if you really want to use the barium, then try either the NO2 or the HCl/NaNO3 method.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
HeYBrO
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 115
Registered: 6-12-2013
Location: 'straya
Member Is Online

Mood: :)

[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 17:40


if you have strontium and potassium nitrate, why don't you buy some? seems like the most logical solution, especially because barium is not the friendliest ion to work with when soluble.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Jmap science
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 19-10-2013
Location: Florida
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 17:53


well I see your point
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
woelen
Administrator
********




Posts: 5042
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 22-1-2014 at 23:58


If you have hydrochloric acid, then you could try making a solution of BaCl2 from BaCO3. Making very pure BaCl2 from the pottery grade BaCO3 is not trivial, but if you intend to use your product for pyro-purposes, then you need to be less stringent on purity. You also do not need to isolate the BaCl2, you can keep it in solution.

Here is my webpage on making BaCl2.2H2O:
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/BaCl2_2H2O/i...

To the solution of BaCl2 you add a solution of KNO3. Ba(NO3)2 is much less soluble than KNO3, KCl and BaCl2, so that should drop out. From a single step you get mostly Ba(NO3)2 with a small amount of K-ions and Cl-ions in it, but that is not a problem for pyro-purposes. Otherwise, you need to recrystallize your Ba(NO3)2 from quite a large amount of water.

This also works with NaNO3 instead of KNO3, but the resulting Ba(NO3)2 will contain some Na-ions in that case and if you want to use it for pyro-purposes, that is not good at all.

[Edited on 23-1-14 by woelen]




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at http://www.oelen.net/science
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Jmap science
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 19-10-2013
Location: Florida
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-1-2014 at 03:32


Thanks
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
markx
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 139
Registered: 7-8-2003
Location: Northern kingdom
Member Is Offline

Mood: Very Jolly

[*] posted on 23-1-2014 at 03:54


Well, the method that I used, was to add a slight stoichiometric excess of BaCO3 to ammonium nitrate solution and then boil, boil, boil until no more ammonia fumes evolved. Ammonium carbonate will decompose in boiling water and will therefore be expelled from the solution. What you are left with is Ba(NO3)2 solution. The boiling will take a LONG time though....as I remember I kept the kettle simmering for 2-3 days. But in the end you are left with a nice crop of crystals. Filter, purify and dry them as needed. Beware though, that water soluble barium salts are very poisonous. Take the neccesary precautions when handling them.


[Edited on 23-1-2014 by markx]




Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
View user's profile View All Posts By User
TheChemiKid
National Hazard
****




Posts: 455
Registered: 5-8-2013
Location: /root/
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 23-1-2014 at 04:08


Why did you take away the picture?



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Brain&Force
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 854
Registered: 13-11-2013
Location: the f-block
Member Is Offline

Mood: I'm trying to think but nothing happens!

[*] posted on 23-1-2014 at 15:32


Woelen's procedure sounds good to me, but if you take the KCl contaminated crystals and dissolve them in sulfuric acid, wouldn't you be making aqua regia with the nitrate? Would distillation cause the nitrosyl chloride to escape and decompose?




can you read this?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AJKOER
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1366
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 29-1-2014 at 14:42


Brain&Force:

Good thinking. Always expect interactions!

However, I suspect the only way to form some NOCl here would be by the action of conc H2SO4 on the dry chloride and nitrate salts.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1288
Registered: 26-11-2013
Location: Up root's ass
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 29-1-2014 at 14:55


This is rather off topic, but I want to make nitric acid from Barium nitrate, (Jmap science gave me the idea). I have 98% sulfuric acid, and pyro grade Ba(NO3), I mixed them in stoichiometric proportions, and waited.
The problem was that even though Ba(NO3) is insoluble, there was just way to much solid in proportion to the liquid. It just looked like there wasn't any liquid at all. The HNO3 was fuming out from the heat generated, what should I do. I'm not asking to be spoon fed here, tried a few different ideas, and have worked on this since the day this topic was started, but nothing has worked.




My element collection:
Elements so far:24/92
Latest acquired element(s): Silicon, Nickel, Tin, and Antimony.
Next element(s) to acquire: Sodium, potassium.
Latest acquired compound(s): Calcium chloride.
Full collection in Bio. Pictures here.
Amos Backstrom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Cheddite Cheese
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 753
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Minnesota, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Diazotized

[*] posted on 29-1-2014 at 15:22


Dissolve the barium nitrate in water first. Or, you could distill the nitric acid (however, you might as well do this with any other nitrate.)



Life is a joke. Our job is to make it funny.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1288
Registered: 26-11-2013
Location: Up root's ass
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 29-1-2014 at 15:29


The whole reason that I want to use barium is because I don't have a distillation setup. I know I'll have to get one at some point, but I can't afford to drop the required $100- $300, at least not now. Nitric acid >95% is not required, but I'd like it to be as con. as possible.



My element collection:
Elements so far:24/92
Latest acquired element(s): Silicon, Nickel, Tin, and Antimony.
Next element(s) to acquire: Sodium, potassium.
Latest acquired compound(s): Calcium chloride.
Full collection in Bio. Pictures here.
Amos Backstrom.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top