Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Storing con. HNO3 and other jewels
Buckyballz
Harmless
*




Posts: 2
Registered: 26-2-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 26-2-2014 at 21:18
Storing con. HNO3 and other jewels


I'm new to this. And I am finally living the dream and putting together a home chem lab:cool:. I have some concentrated HNO3 and HCL on order and I am worried about storage. Can they be stored together? Do I need a acid storage cabinet with the fancy blue paint?? Because, I don't have $500+ to spend on a cabinet:(. Any advice / strict orders would be appreciated!!!

:D

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Brain&Force
Hazard to Lanthanides
*****




Posts: 1295
Registered: 13-11-2013
Location: UW-Madison
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 26-2-2014 at 21:28


Keep all acids away from any metals. I left a fairly large Nd magnet in a fume hood seething with HCl and it turned into a pile of rust.

Nitric and hydrochloric acids form the toxic nitrosyl chloride in aqueous solution. I don't know about gas phase, but I advise storing them apart for safety's sake. Neither should be too much of a problem for regular cabinets.

My school stores nitric acid in locked metal cabinets.




Raney nickel can't hydrogenate dank memes.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Thread Moved
27-2-2014 at 05:09
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1956
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-2-2014 at 05:33


If you are worried about the fumes, just place each bottle inside a larger plastic container (Rubbermaid pitcher or other storage container) and you can even put some NaHCO3 inside the plastic container to absorb any fumes. I have done that before for acids.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 27-2-2014 at 06:47


Brain&Force, Yes HCl(aq) reacts with Nd magnets to isolate boron.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Acidum
Harmless
*




Posts: 39
Registered: 2-5-2013
Location: Serbia
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sublimed

[*] posted on 27-2-2014 at 10:29


By far, this is THE best solution (no pun intended) for storing of acids that I have seen (excluding professional cabinets, of course) - bucket with bottom covered in some adsorbing material:



By the way, image made by our member ScienceHideout, placed here without any question, and stolen from Tour My Lab topic: original post. :P

Nice lab, by the way!

[Edited on 27-2-2014 by Acidum]




...and then I disappeared in the mist...
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemrox
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2901
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline

Mood: psychedelic

[*] posted on 27-2-2014 at 11:18


Or you can buy a polymer cabinet from Home Depot like stores (please boycott Wal-mart) as long as you have a ventilated area for it.



"Ignorance is the Mother of Devotion." — Robert Burton.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
testimento
National Hazard
****




Posts: 351
Registered: 10-6-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-2-2014 at 12:19


I have found wine and beer kegs that are made of glass a good storage option for short to medium for nitric acid. These bottles look a little like massive boiling flasks, and they can be stoppered with silicone or rubber plugs. I used tight rubber plugs which I lined with PTFE. This prevents air from getting in, but when the acid decomposes slightly, the pressure is allowed to leave without bursting the bottle. These kegs range from few liters to even up to 50, or even 100 liters and are usually supplied with a protective, plastic basket that allows easy handling.

Stainless steel, like 316, when clean(washed with nitric and hydrofluoric acid), will hold well against RFNA and WFNA. You will need pressure compensation though for any nitric acid over 80%, or it may explode the container.

Chemicals can be stored well without any fume hoods. The safest option is to make any box or cabinet where you have line attached to rooftop. This creates a small suction, and if any noxious fumes are evolved, they cannot exit the cabined because the very small vacuum difference formed and they are safely vented out. For other storage, take them off rooms where you live, like warehouse. Normal chemicals wont cause fumes when handled correctly, like HCl and nitric acid. Only very toxic stuff like cyanides or toxins should be handled with special care.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Buckyballz
Harmless
*




Posts: 2
Registered: 26-2-2014
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-2-2014 at 16:44


:D Wow! Thanks everyone!! That was such a big help! I might go with a combination of advice from everyone. Lots of good ideas here. Good to know I don't have to spend $800 for a fancy cabinet. Cheers!:D
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1775
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-2-2014 at 08:56


Buckyballz: Did you happen to send me a message on YouTube about this? If not, your question is eerily similar to one I just got a few days ago. If it was you, check your inbox!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
chemrox
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2901
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline

Mood: psychedelic

[*] posted on 28-2-2014 at 12:24


"Lined with PTFE.." How are you doing that?



"Ignorance is the Mother of Devotion." — Robert Burton.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 28-2-2014 at 12:30


chemrox , I tend to line my rubber stoppers with PTFE tape when containing chemicals that react with rubber. Eg. Chlorine, nitric acid, iodine vapour ect.
Simply wind "plumbers Tape" around your stoppers. Several layers are easily enough.

[Edited on 28-2-2014 by Zyklonb]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
testimento
National Hazard
****




Posts: 351
Registered: 10-6-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-2-2014 at 13:38


I can obtain PTFE sheets per square meter from 50 to 200mic thick. I cut round pieces from these so they will fit against lips of bottles and when I screw the top in, it will compress a tight seal so only glass and PTFE are explosed on chemicals. Tape would work too, though the top seal has seams and will not be proof. If you just wind plumber tape around threads, the chemical will still attack the bottle top and this does not proofen the top by any means, and if it leaky by nature, one should discard it instantly because taping wont fix it.

[Edited on 28-2-2014 by testimento]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DubaiAmateurRocketry
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 843
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: LA, CA, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: In research

[*] posted on 1-3-2014 at 00:38


Where did you get your concentrated nitric acid? I am moving to USA and I am worried that I can not put together a home lab :)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ScienceHideout
National Hazard
****




Posts: 391
Registered: 12-3-2011
Location: In the Source
Member Is Offline

Mood: High Spin

[*] posted on 1-3-2014 at 17:38


Quote: Originally posted by Acidum  
By far, this is THE best solution (no pun intended) for storing of acids that I have seen (excluding professional cabinets, of course) - bucket with bottom covered in some adsorbing material:

[Pic was here]

By the way, image made by our member ScienceHideout, placed here without any question, and stolen from Tour My Lab topic: original post. :P

Nice lab, by the way!

[Edited on 27-2-2014 by Acidum]


Thanks a lot!

All of my chemical safety protocol and storage is backed up by Flinn Scientific in Illinois. They advocate storing chemicals like this, and they also suggest storing HNO3 away from ALL other materials unless an acid cabinet is equipped with an HNO3 compartment (most aren't). If you look at the picture of my chemical storage cabinet, all the way to the right in the very back you can see a translucent container with a blue lid. In here, there is HNO3 in a poly-coated glass bottle in a plastic bag, with kitty litter in the bottom. Not to brag, but I am a bit of a self-proclaimed expert when it comes to chemical storage. I would be happy to post all of my patterns in the prepublication section if you are interested.

Oh, and by the way, the bucket is actually fitted with a screw top adapter I got at Lowes for less then $10. It makes for easy airtight opening/closing

[Edited on 2-3-2014 by ScienceHideout]




hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!


View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Metacelsus
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2273
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Cambridge, MA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble

[*] posted on 1-3-2014 at 17:56


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Where did you get your concentrated nitric acid? I am moving to USA and I am worried that I can not put together a home lab :)


As long as you aren't moving to Texas, and you have available space, starting a lab shouldn't be a problem.

It's relatively easy to make concentrated nitric acid from a nitrate salt and sulfuric acid (there are a plethora of threads on this). Dudadiesel also sells it, although it is expensive to buy due to shipping costs.




As below, so above.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
shadow
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 52
Registered: 17-10-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 1-3-2014 at 22:53


If he lives in Dubai, money shouldn't be an issue.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
froot
National Hazard
****




Posts: 347
Registered: 23-10-2003
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline

Mood: refluxed

[*] posted on 1-3-2014 at 23:58


I've got my HNO3 in a glass stoppered conical flask that sits in a small plastic bucket on an open shelf and it's been like that for years. No effects on nearby items.



We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DubaiAmateurRocketry
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 843
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: LA, CA, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: In research

[*] posted on 2-3-2014 at 02:19


Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Where did you get your concentrated nitric acid? I am moving to USA and I am worried that I can not put together a home lab :)


As long as you aren't moving to Texas, and you have available space, starting a lab shouldn't be a problem.

It's relatively easy to make concentrated nitric acid from a nitrate salt and sulfuric acid (there are a plethora of threads on this). Dudadiesel also sells it, although it is expensive to buy due to shipping costs.


I am not going to Texas. Thanks for the link on that company, however they have only 70% Nitric acid, I dont think I'll find around 95% in US so it looks like I have to distill for high purity.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ScienceHideout
National Hazard
****




Posts: 391
Registered: 12-3-2011
Location: In the Source
Member Is Offline

Mood: High Spin

[*] posted on 2-3-2014 at 06:59


I don't think that anyone other than a professional chemical supplier would sell >70% HNO3. Unless you have a business and can order from Sigma Aldrich, you would have to make it.



hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!


View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fluorine radical

[*] posted on 2-3-2014 at 07:35



Quote:

As long as you aren't moving to Texas, and you have available space, starting a lab shouldn't be a problem.

Really? Why does everybody think Texas is a waist-land and a hard place to start a lab?
I did it, nitric acid of any concentration is easy to obtain, as are all the chemicals I have ever needed, except for those used to produce illicit narcotics.




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Xenon1898
Harmless
*




Posts: 49
Registered: 19-1-2013
Location: United States
Member Is Offline

Mood: Researching

[*] posted on 2-3-2014 at 20:54


I read somewhere that Erlenmeyer flasks are not legal for private citizens to own in Texas. Not sure what else would be outlawed, but if the legislators in Texas are going to do that then nothing would surprise me. They might as well outlaw mason jars too.



“If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?”

-Albert Einstein
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Hockeydemon
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 218
Registered: 25-2-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-3-2014 at 21:03


Pretty much all glassware is illegal in Texas.. Here is there definition and list of illegal things:

Quote:

"Chemical laboratory apparatus" means any item of equipment designed, made, or adapted to manufacture a controlled substance or a controlled substance analogue, including:

(A) a condenser
(B) a distilling apparatus
(C) a vacuum drier
(D) a three-neck or distilling flask
(E) a tableting machine
(F) an encapsulating machine
(G) a filter, Buchner, or separatory funnel
(H) an Erlenmeyer, two-neck, or single-neck flask
(I) a round-bottom, Florence, thermometer, or filtering flask
(J) a Soxhlet extractor
(K) a transformer
(L) a flask heater
(M) a heating mantel or
(N) an adaptor tube


Texas is just an all around awful place - if you want to watch an incredibly frustrating documentary on netflix.. "The Revisionaries" is about the Texas school boards and how they decide what shows up in public school curriculum. They flat out undermine science and imply creationism at every turn. For example: "Evolution is xxxx, but there are some scientists who disagree with that theory".. It is extremely aggravating to watch, but it is a well done documentary.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top