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Author: Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide Explosives
ecos
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 00:03
Hydrogen Peroxide Explosives


Hi All,

i just found this forum today and I am very interested about this section :)

I didn't know that I can find a forum that discuss such stuff, it was my interest since i was young but couldn't find much info.

I used to play with Acetone Peroxide since it is very easy to prepare at home , I make very small quantity like 10 grams and play with it carefully since it is very sensitive.

Recently I found the attached document about "hydrogen peroxide explosives" and I am interested to try it with 100 grams quantities (time for big stuff).

I have some points that needs clarification and I hope you can help me about.


1- what is the sensitivity of hydroxide explosives (wood , AL, corn , .. + H202) ?

2- how many grams of Acetone Peroxide is needed to explode those stuffs?

3- what does he mean by "No. 6 blasting caps" ?

4-"76.8% hydrogen peroxide (90% ), and 23.2% wood pulp"
"the principal constituent of wood substance, is evidently stronger than nitroglycerin."

howcome ?!

5- the patent explain several derivatives from hydrogen peroxide but didn't compare them to each other or even mention the strength of each one in numbers ! do anybody have any idea about which mixture is the best?

6- I can find H202 with 50% concentration , how would i calculate the weight percentage for each mixture since he used 90% concentration

Attachment: US3047441.pdf (464kB)
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Marvin
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 04:09


Please leave your personal details with a member of the forum staff so that when you kill yourself we will have closure.

I'm completely serious.

Your post makes you sound like an idiot and you already want to make potentially lethal amounts.

It sounds like you've read nothing in the SM library.
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trevor
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 04:50


ecos .. Are you kidding me??? 10 grams of a unstable (unpredictable) explosives are a small quantities?
For real .. dont try again to make another 10grams or more batch of this shit. That amount is potentially lethal!!!
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Metacelsus
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 06:46


Quote: Originally posted by ecos  
make very small quantity like 10 grams and play with it


:o

WTF!




As below, so above.
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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 06:52


That's what I was just thinking.
Oh, yeah, I just play around with ten times the amount needed to remove both my hands- it's nothing.




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ecos
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 06:54


Hi Guys :D

it seems there is a miss understanding here :)

10 grams is the full quantity i build but i divide it into small amounts to play with :) i don't play directly with 10 grams as one unit.

BTW , any answers for my questions above ? :)
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 08:03


Quote:

BTW , any answers for my questions above ? :)

Do you have a valid reason for not finding the answers yourself?

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ecos
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 08:13


if i have any knowledge i won't ask !
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 08:22


If you want to ask questions, you can post it on

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=26572&...

There is a bad reputation and atmosphere on organoperoxides, 10 gram is a lot, more than enough to take your life.
A Member called Phones, was just like you, who synthesized organoperoxides and then died in an accident and made headlines. If you're new to EM, I suggest you read other posts here such as http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8144
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1970
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DrChemistRabbit
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 08:31


most peroxides are terrible waste,I do think you'd better drop them away.



Chem is try.
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ecos
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[*] posted on 7-3-2014 at 09:29


@DubaiAmateurRocketry , thanks for the advice.

@DrChemistRabbit, thanks for the reply :) , u surprise me !
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ecos
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[*] posted on 21-3-2014 at 18:47


I could find answers for my questions above , i have one concern and one question

my concern : it was stated hydrogen peroxide explosive is more stronger than NG !!! howcome?!

my question : did anybody here have knowledge about storage of those kind of explosives?

[Edited on 22-3-2014 by ecos]
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numos
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[*] posted on 21-3-2014 at 19:43


How do you store acetone peroxide? Very simple: you don't! If you have to make it use it immediately, long storage and it crystalizes and becomes much more unstable.

also 78% H2O2 can probably be considered an explosive by itself...

Stay safe, and of all the beautiful aspects of chemistry, why explosives? :(
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ecos
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[*] posted on 22-3-2014 at 06:02


hi numos,

i just want to learn , i wont try to concentrate H2O2 since it become very active and unstable.
but i feel that patent attached in my first post has make propaganda about peroxides explosive without any true proof in military or commercial fields
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Antiswat
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[*] posted on 22-3-2014 at 12:56


keep it SMALLER, keep it SAFER and dont ever use fragmentating material
i think AP is very overrated, you really need to fuck up with it, however yes it does have slightly unpredictable properties, but not as much as HMTD

i think it should yet again be repeated that OP might not be the best to play around with +70% H2O2.. 80%H2O2 burns leather on contact.

have a go with flashpowder at first..
anyhow, i think the admins do have our IP and location..

it could seem that you are not that old or just not very interested in english
dont know how to say it... scale it up if you have at least decent experience in what you use, but keep on using peroxides and a person like you who asks questions like ''why is H2O2 + wood stronger than NG'' will end up flat on the ground, or probably even in pieces
at least you seperated the AP into smaller amounts and didnt start out with 500g AP, but try to find an alternative to peroxides until you go further with energetics scaling up




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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[*] posted on 23-3-2014 at 00:56


perhaps, ecos you really should look into peroxide based primaries involved in accidents. there are countless stories of lost fingers,hands and worse. i think that you would be doing yourself a HUGE service to just find another interesting safer substance to play with. Any one of these 10 1g amounts may shoot if "played with"
it really is enough to do damage.it is easy to see why peroxides are an attractive choice for primaries. the materials are cheap, synthesis is quite simple and the yeilds are good but the trade off comes with the safety of them. I guess that you have been warned and hopefully take the advices of members here. research the stuff a bit more before deciding to carry on with the synthesis. Better still just dont go with AP if you do -keep it very small. research blasting caps too.




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ecos
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[*] posted on 25-3-2014 at 11:23


I am not talking about AP , i am talking about other stuff as attached in my first post.
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[*] posted on 25-3-2014 at 19:07


ecos... I can appreciate your enthusiasm for EMs but the way you are going about it is totally backwards and very dangerous. Many of us (I would like to believe the vast majority of us) are interested in the science and the scientific process first and foremost then marveling at the power second. THIS IS THE WRONG HOBBY TO PERSUE IF YOU LET YOUR AMBITION EXCEED YOUR SKILL AND KNOWLEDGE OF THIS CRAFT. That being said I would agree with other members and do a lot of research before you even think of synthesizing anything. The reason that some of the members seem dismissive is that the first post you listed made no god damn sense at all.
ie peroxide and many of the materials you listed are in compatible. Having a little knowledge and making large quantities of a very powerful highly unstable primary could very likely kill you and perpetuate the already bad stigma that this hobby is associated with. So PLEASE do some research read more threads and learn before you think of doing anything. So relax learn and above all else SAFETY FIRST. - Scientwisted :cool:

[Edited on 26-3-2014 by Scientwisted]
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[*] posted on 25-3-2014 at 19:13


Quote: Originally posted by numos  
How do you store acetone peroxide? Very simple: you don't! If you have to make it use it immediately, long storage and it crystalizes and becomes much more unstable.

also 78% H2O2 can probably be considered an explosive by itself...

Stay safe, and of all the beautiful aspects of chemistry, why explosives? :(


Acetone peroxide (TATP) can be stored underwater and filtered and dried when needed. TATP sublimates into small crystals which are EXTREMELY shock sensitive (paranoid meth cooks sprinkle TATP around doorways to deter police officers entering their homes).

That being said if you do make TATP make sure you do it below 10*C to form the (more stable) trimer, if it goes above 10 degrees it will form the dimer which can off simply by touching it!

If you plan to make this compound I would recommend investing in some ACTUAL lab equipment (beakers, graduated cylinder, filter funnel). DO NOT make it all at once, do it in multiple small batches and have protection (full face shield, and leather gloves) when making this. It will save your life.

To get H2O2 you can use 30% hair bleacher which you can pick up at your local salon. Use stoichiometric amounts.

I don't know what the wood pulp is for, you really don't need it if you are just going for the boom!

If you plan to set off 100+ grams of TATP you will need an ignition method. If I were you I would be sure I was at least 100 yards away and behind cover. I would use a very long length of fuse to set it off.

ALWAYS remember to treat the compound your working with with respect.




DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction. No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
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Scientwisted
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[*] posted on 25-3-2014 at 19:41


Steam I like how you're telling him to use stoichiometric amounts when is pretty apparent he doesn't know what he is doing. Further more why are you encouraging him to set off that amount of TATP or even have that amount of it period? Be careful what you say because people starting out who lack common sense may indeed try it.
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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 25-3-2014 at 20:43


I suggest never set off 100 grams of any primer. They are used to detonate secondary's.
If you really want to see 100 grams of a explosive going off, just make a few grams of your primary, and use that to set off large quantitys of stable explosives.
I have never set off any explosives in quantitys over 4 grams, nor do I want to.
In the same way that people spout misinformation like: "Cannabis is a 'gateway' drug." (It isn't.) They think that the more people set off explosives, the more they want to, and they want to set off bigger batches.
This, however, is far from the truth (except in the case of: Kewls, pyromaniacs, explosive experts, psychopaths, ect.) The first time I got Al powder, I made about 10 grams of flash powder, to show my family.
No accidents occurred, because I know what I was doing, had the proper safty equipment, and used potassium nitrate as an oxidizer. (With boric acid.) But it was a stupid thing to do non the less.
Now, I marvel at the brightness of .001 grams flash powder, and how much energy it gives off. It truly amazing to see a speck of dust, and as soon as it ignites - whoosh! With a bright light, and you can feel the heat.



[Edited on 26-3-2014 by Zyklonb]




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Alexander.W
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[*] posted on 4-4-2014 at 13:26


Well, actually anything(almost) with (peroxy-) sucks. They are low power and dangerous. And it is not stable. The decomposition of H2O2 can be catalyzed by so many common things.
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[*] posted on 22-10-2014 at 08:35


What happened in hexamethylenetetramine :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAZG3o1qYSs



[Edited on 22-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
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[*] posted on 30-11-2014 at 12:58


agree with scientwisted.

its a bad idea to "subdivide to play" explosives sould be prepared and stored in quantities that you wouldn't mind going off in your hand, and assembled for use. There is an exception though because some dont like the sort of friction you get from mixing, those are produced, packaged, and stored in the usable quantity - a lot of primer materials are that way.

I know of at least one peroxide explosive that is powerful enough that one gram will blow all your extremities off.

I have to be honest here and say I am not nearly an expert at that stuff so if anyone disagrees with me give it some thought. I'm more interested in the other sections of the forum.

You might look into explosive handling licenses/demolition certifications for the educational materials they provide. If you find anything good see if the admin will add it to the library.
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[*] posted on 30-11-2014 at 15:31


Blow your hand off? You don't mean the fabled DPPP? Ha!



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