copperastic
Hazard to Others
Posts: 158
Registered: 15-3-2014
Location: In your basement
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good
|
|
One atom being a gas liquid plasma or solid.
Hi, I was wondering if lets say you have one atom of copper (I know its impossible to separate one atom) would it be a gas liquid solid or plasma?
Thanks
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
I'd call it a gas if it was floating around, a solid if it was stuck to other atoms (say, resting on a nickel crystal).
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
copperastic
Hazard to Others
Posts: 158
Registered: 15-3-2014
Location: In your basement
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good
|
|
Ok thanks, I was wondering about this for a while.
|
|
|
Zyklon-A
International Hazard
Posts: 1547
Registered: 26-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fluorine radical
|
|
Yes, like DraconicAcid said, it's a gas, everything evaporates at room temperature, even solids with very high boiling points. Just
very slowly.
|
|
|
HgDinis25
Hazard to Others
Posts: 439
Registered: 14-3-2014
Location: Portugal
Member Is Offline
Mood: Who drank my mercury?
|
|
Being a gas, a liquid or a solid has to do with the number of bonds between molecules (Plasma has to due with electrons). Molecules or atomes in the
gas phase do not have any bonds with other molecules or atoms, so a single atom would be a gas. However, this is more tricky than a simple definition.
For instance, if we were talking about a radioactive element you couldn't know when it would form new atoms, like Helium nucleus. This way you could
make a single atom form a liquid (liquid Helium). If you get interested by this look up the schrodinger's cat paradox.
|
|
|
copperastic
Hazard to Others
Posts: 158
Registered: 15-3-2014
Location: In your basement
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good
|
|
But hgdinis nitrogen is N2 so gases can have bonds
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Those bonds are within a molecule, not between molecules.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
copperastic
Hazard to Others
Posts: 158
Registered: 15-3-2014
Location: In your basement
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good
|
|
oh so you meant like crystal structure ok.
|
|
|
Artemus Gordon
Hazard to Others
Posts: 178
Registered: 1-8-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Since things are defined based on their properties, I don't think you can call a single atom a gas. A gas has a pressure that increases with
temperature, but if you had a single atom inside a jar, almost all parts of the wall of the jar would be experiencing zero pressure almost all of the
time, and increasing the temperature of the jar would not change that much at all.
I think, just like one cow can't make a herd, one atom can't make a gas, or a liquid, or a solid.
[Edited on 28-3-2014 by Artemus Gordon]
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Artemus Gordon  | | Since things are defined based on their properties, I don't think you can call a single atom a gas. A gas has a pressure that increases with
temperature, but if you had a single atom inside a jar, almost all parts of the wall of the jar would be experiencing zero pressure almost all of the
time, and increasing the temperature of the jar would not change that much at all. |
Well, not changing the pressure very much may mean that the pressure is doubling or tripling, so I'm not sure that's valid. If the atom kept bouncing
around, it will be moving faster at a higher temp, and so will hit the walls of the container both more often and harder, giving more pressure.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
ScienceSquirrel
International Hazard
Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination! 
|
|
Single atoms of reactive elements do not exist on earth for long as there is always something nearby to react with.
However in deep space, where atoms and molecules are very widely dispersed in a very cold environment, single atoms of copper or nitrogen could exist
because there is nothing nearby to react with and no energy to provide the essential kick in the pants to get things going!
|
|
|
annaandherdad
Hazard to Others
Posts: 387
Registered: 17-9-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Some comments. The phases of matter are usually understood to refer to bulk properties, so a single atom (or a single molecule) doesn't have a phase
(at least with that understanding). In fact, the bulk properties (especially liquid, solid) develop gradually as you build up clusters of more and
more atoms or molecules. For example, a cluster of 10 sodium atoms doesn't have a precise melting point in the same way as 10^20 atoms do.
As for single atoms (such as H) existing in outer space, a gas of molecules such as H2 in thermal equilibrium has a certain fraction of molecules
dissociated into H atoms. The fraction depends on *both* the temperature and pressure, with low pressures and high temperatures favoring
dissociation. A cold gas of hydrogen will be nearly completely dissociated, if the pressure is low enough and if you wait long enough for thermal
equilibrium to be established. This is important in astrophysics, where the densities can be very low. It's called Saha equilbrium, described by
the Saha equation.
Any other SF Bay chemists?
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't think you can call a single atom a 'gas'. Part of a gas, yes, but not a gas in and of itself. The phases refer to large collections of
atoms/molecules, single atoms don't have the thermodynamical properties we associate with gases, liquids, solids and the other more newly discovered
phases.
It's nonsensical to talk of phases in the case of a single atom. 'Unbound atom' would one way to describe it.
[Edited on 28-3-2014 by blogfast25]
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid | | Well, not changing the pressure very much may mean that the pressure is doubling or tripling, so I'm not sure that's valid. If the atom kept bouncing
around, it will be moving faster at a higher temp, and so will hit the walls of the container both more often and harder, giving more pressure.
|
Wow, DA! That's not pressure AT ALL! That's single impact of an atom on a wall. Pressure only arises when large quantities of atoms/molecules hit the
walls of a vessel. That's basically its definition.
|
|
|
Artemus Gordon
Hazard to Others
Posts: 178
Registered: 1-8-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Here's a thought experiment:
You have a balloon that is elastic just like a rubber balloon, but it won't melt or burn. You fill it with helium at room temp. and you measure it's
size. Now you let a little of the He leak out. Then you heat the balloon so the He expands until the balloon returns to it's original size. Keep doing
this. Eventually, you will have so few atoms of He left that even if the atoms were sped up to as close to the speed of light as they can get, they
will be unable to keep the balloon inflated.
At that point, IMO, you will no longer have a gas.
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Artemus Gordon | Eventually, you will have so few atoms of He left that even if the atoms were sped up to as close to the speed of light as they can get, they will be
unable to keep the balloon inflated.
At that point, IMO, you will no longer have a gas. |
Yes, this is true. There's a specific type of vacuum pump for extremely high vacuum, so high that the few atoms/molecules hardly ever collide anymore.
Such a 'gas' no longer shows the macroscopic characteristics of a real gas.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
