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Author: Subject: Chemistry for profit?
gdflp
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 12:05


Theoretically yes. However, if you are buying tons of precursors to these chemicals, or drugs, on sites like eBay, the DEA can get a search warrant and knock on your front door. Especially if the chemicals are on that list. And eBay is all too happy to give your address and buying history to them.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 13:05


Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
Theoretically yes. However, if you are buying tons of precursors to these chemicals, or drugs, on sites like eBay, the DEA can get a search warrant and knock on your front door. Especially if the chemicals are on that list. And eBay is all too happy to give your address and buying history to them.


Is there a legal way to obtain chemicals on that list? any form of certificate etc? acetic anhydride and sulfuric acid are just too useful.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 13:20


Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
eBay is all too happy to give your address and buying history to them.


Also happy to freeze any funds you have in your PP account, but strangely keep accepting any Incoming money.

Ebay/PayPal *have* to comply - they are playing in the Big Game, and will do anything to you and me so they can keep playing.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 13:36


Sorry, I should have been more specific. Any List I chemicals will cause the DEA to come knocking. List II and SS are less restricted, but obviously if you're going down the list buying every single one in a short amount of time it will attract some suspicion.
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macckone
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 16:09


As others have said, list 1 chemicals will attract attention but
they do have a lower limit of concern. Ie. any amount over the
minimum threshold results in the chemical supplier notifying the DEA.
As for manufacturing, making more than the threshold amount would
require a license. On the other hand it is only illegal to possess those
chemicals if they were obtained fraudulently or if you intend to make a
scheduled substance. However, possessing some of those chemicals
will be used as evidence of your intent to manufacture a scheduled
substance. The list 2 chemicals don't attract as much attention and
the thresholds are reasonable. It isn't a crime to buy chemicals.
It is a crime to make drugs or lie while buying them. And selling them
does require you to register with the DEA if they are listed. And
that means even if you never sell over the listing threshold.
Which as I previously said for some substances is 0kg.
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Chemosynthesis
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 16:36


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  

Is there a legal way to obtain chemicals on that list? any form of certificate etc? acetic anhydride and sulfuric acid are just too useful.

As above, yes. Aren't you in Dubai, though? You have entirely different laws.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 18:43


As a 100% hypothetical example, let's I want to synthesize Penicillin G for purely personal research and had absolutely no intention of it ever leaving the lab. Penicillin G can be made form phenylacetic acid which is on the list. Could I make phenylacetic acid?





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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 18:51


Quote: Originally posted by Steam  
As a 100% hypothetical example, let's I want to synthesize Penicillin G for purely personal research and had absolutely no intention of it ever leaving the lab. Penicillin G can be made form phenylacetic acid which is on the list. Could I make phenylacetic acid?

In theory yes you can make it. And if the quantity is very small and you
have good notes attesting to your interest in Penicillin G and if you lack
any notes regarding other uses then you are probably safe-ish. You
may want to put a lawyer on retainer if you ever searched the web
for anything remotely illegal though. Not to discourage you but if caught
with a list 1 chemical you need to have pretty good evidence that you
are not guilty of cookery.
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[*] posted on 8-4-2014 at 19:07


Probably a good idea for me to stay away from any list 1 for a while considering I wrote a school newspaper article on Breaking Bad last month!



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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 00:03


Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis  
Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  

Is there a legal way to obtain chemicals on that list? any form of certificate etc? acetic anhydride and sulfuric acid are just too useful.

As above, yes. Aren't you in Dubai, though? You have entirely different laws.


Yes, I will be moving to US soon, and I am really worried what If I am caught having chemicals or I can not find the suppliers.
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 05:40


It might be legal to have a chemical in the US. However, you might have some serious issues importing this stuff. Especially because I see you are very active in EM, lots of your stuff might not be importable to the US. I would check it out this page http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr_reports/chemicals/in... for info about the List I and II stuff. Good Luck!
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 07:09


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  

Yes, I will be moving to US soon, and I am really worried what If I am caught having chemicals or I can not find the suppliers.

Unfortunately for you it will be illegal to manufacture energetics until you have a permanent resident visa and the correct explosives license. Given your country of residence and posting history here it would not be advisable to pursue much chemistry until your paperwork is complete and you have an appropriate magazine. Dept of Homeland Security is likely to have you on a watch list.
Sorry to be a kill joy but people from the middle east dont get equal rights in the land of the free. Technically it is legal for permanent residents and citizens to manufacture energetics for personal use without a license but you still have to have a magazine and you need a license to transport them. Given your country of residence assume that personal use isn't going to cut it with DHS.
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 08:49


Sadly true, at least in the explosives BUSINESS. BATFE CAN give letters of clearance as an explosives handler for non US citizens- But only permanent residents are likely to ever get one.

See question #25:

Given the huge number of undergraduate foreign students in US institutions taking organic chem and likely interested in synthesis of energetics- Could some of our academic members give the straight dope on this? Is there a blanket license for the department/professor, and the students work under it? Or is it just not do-able for someone on a student visa at all?

My knowledge is completely on the commercial end of EM.

If you're a grad student or researcher in an explosives related field, you MIGHT just get a variance if your Prof. or Dept. head cares to ask on your behalf?

[Edited on 9-4-2014 by Bert]




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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 10:49


Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  

Yes, I will be moving to US soon, and I am really worried what If I am caught having chemicals or I can not find the suppliers.

Unfortunately for you it will be illegal to manufacture energetics until you have a permanent resident visa and the correct explosives license. Given your country of residence and posting history here it would not be advisable to pursue much chemistry until your paperwork is complete and you have an appropriate magazine. Dept of Homeland Security is likely to have you on a watch list.
Sorry to be a kill joy but people from the middle east dont get equal rights in the land of the free. Technically it is legal for permanent residents and citizens to manufacture energetics for personal use without a license but you still have to have a magazine and you need a license to transport them. Given your country of residence assume that personal use isn't going to cut it with DHS.


Right, but I am not actually from middle east. Our team consists of several members and there are several people on this account, I am asian(other posts might come from someone else) and I am a permanent US resident (my family got the green card because of my dad's company). Dubai is not dangerous at all! I have been living here for 10 years, police arrive in lightning speed for anything, and therefore its crime rate makes it one of the safest city in the world. I never saw any crime here and everyone here is nice. However in other countries in the middle east, its a different story.

How do you obtain the licence to manufacture explosives? I am not really interested in explosives's explosive property and I am more into their use for advanced solid propellants. The binder will make the overall sensitivity more friendly. I obviously won't synthesize peroxides, and yes I might synthesize RDX etc maybe for a burn rate comparison for different formulations with others so I think I do need that licence.
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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 11:12


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  
Our team consists of several members and there are several people on this account


Please, have your various members who wish to post here GET THEIR OWN ACCOUNTS.

I was puzzled as to why "DubaiAmateurRocketry" varied so much in tone and background knowledge.

US Explosives Laws- Please read pp. 13-59 for starters

As far as a US explosives license, you fill out a form and give BATFE a fee ($200.00 for most license types), they will come inspect your proposed storage magazine, if your application is for a license type requiring one- Then you are issued a license if everything is found to be proper and to spec.




Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

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[*] posted on 9-4-2014 at 16:42


Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry  

Right, but I am not actually from middle east. Our team consists of several members and there are several people on this account, I am asian(other posts might come from someone else) and I am a permanent US resident (my family got the green card because of my dad's company). Dubai is not dangerous at all! I have been living here for 10 years, police arrive in lightning speed for anything, and therefore its crime rate makes it one of the safest city in the world. I never saw any crime here and everyone here is nice. However in other countries in the middle east, its a different story.

How do you obtain the licence to manufacture explosives? I am not really interested in explosives's explosive property and I am more into their use for advanced solid propellants. The binder will make the overall sensitivity more friendly. I obviously won't synthesize peroxides, and yes I might synthesize RDX etc maybe for a burn rate comparison for different formulations with others so I think I do need that licence.


To the DHS simply traveling to the middle east is sufficient to get you
added to the watch list. They are not as discriminating as many
would like. As a permanent resident, you should be able to get an
explosives permit for research purposed on advanced rocket propellants.
You should join and participate in the National Rocketry Association.
Once you have a high power rocketry level 3 license, you should have
no problem getting the license with support of your local NRA (not to
be confused with the National Rifle Association).

[Edited on 10-4-2014 by macckone]
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[*] posted on 11-4-2014 at 09:35


I was on ebay the other day and saw someone from Ukraine selling Chloral Hydrate and para-methoxy P2NP along with various other suspicious chems. I can't imagine they'll last too long on there.
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[*] posted on 11-4-2014 at 11:17


But laws regarding sale of chemicals in Ukraine may be different than in the states...



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[*] posted on 12-4-2014 at 11:16


A lot of the "good" suppliers (read as: suppliers who happily sold anything to amateur chemists) come from the former Soviet bloc. countries. Keten, Czort, etc. were all from that part of the world, and had solid reputations amongst European chemists at least for being reliable. They did, however, vary a bit in compliance with shipping regulations - often no warning labels on boxes, etc. Same deal with some Chinese suppliers, who would happily relabel materials if import problems were as much as alluded to.
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[*] posted on 13-4-2014 at 07:38


i recall seeing massive traffic and interest on the sodium hydride thread
which is not that easy to get hold of, but they sent shittonnes of it, although many kg's of it was confiscated at canadian borders




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

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[*] posted on 14-4-2014 at 06:27


what about nature? minerals and plants can provide alot of various chemicals given a proper lab and a few basic chemicals...yes you might have to travel to mine sites and know about ore and rocks and plants and flowers but isnt that the purpose of science and this site? and isnt that what a curious mind is about?



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