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Author: Subject: Intangible Force Generator
elementcollector1
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 10:48
Intangible Force Generator


This sounds so dumb, but I figured I'd at least make the attempt.

The goal here is to levitate any sort of object (not just magnets), with any sort of force (be it electromagnetic, pressure, etc.), and then launch it forward with a noticeable velocity. Previous ideas involved increasingly complex arrays of electromagnets, railguns and superconductors, and other such ideas that only worked for magnetic objects and were mainly just infuriating to work with.

The most recent idea I had was to use controlled streams of air to do the levitation, with a 'burst' of pressurized air to do the launching. This has a few ups and downs. The pros are that it can theoretically levitate anything to a certain mass, and can launch that same object using nothing but air. The drawbacks are that this is going to be loud and annoying, and the jets of air would have to be precisely controlled (possibly including a powerful vacuum jet overhead).

Given that the drawbacks potentially exceed the benefits, I'm asking you guys: Is there any better solution for this? That being said,
-No, I'm not going to give up
-I'm probably not going to invest huge amounts of money
-Yes, this is exactly what you think it is (to IrC, who's been pretty much schooling me on my earlier attempts).




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alexleyenda
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 11:41


I was juste wondering, what exactly are you trying to acheive with this? It sounds like you wish to launch an object... why do you absolutely want levitation? Is there a point or ? Btw, it sounds awesome :p
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 12:00


Aerogel in a SF6 atmosphere should easily "levitate". Do you want to be able to levitate any material. You could try a very strong and prescise vacuum at the top of a chamber instead of air being pushed in at the bottom. Just a (lame) idea. Hmm would I use an or a there when there is a word in parentheses? (just thinking out loud(or in typing anyway))



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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 12:15


Quote: Originally posted by bismuthate  
Aerogel in a SF6 atmosphere should easily "levitate".


Believe it or not, I just tried this exact experiment last Friday, and it does not work. We filled a fish tank with sulfur hexafluoride which we had already sprinkled some granular aerogel into, and saw zero floating. SF6 is double the density of my aerogel, yet the gel does not float in the gas. Interesting, eh?

My hypothesis is that because aerogel is such a porous material, it pretty much immediately absorbs the gas which increases its density. Like a sponge soaking up water. I do still want to try filling the container with gas first and then adding the aerogel. Even if that does float, I suspect it would only be for a very short time before it sank.

Edit: typo.

[Edited on 5-21-2014 by MrHomeScientist]
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bismuthate
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 12:20


Try coating the aerogel with a lacquer or something.



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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 12:48


Ah but would that increase its density to the point where it was no longer capable of floating? I think it might. Being so porous, I'd think it would absorb into its structure whatever you tried coating it with.
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bismuthate
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 12:54


Could you coat the aerogel with an airtight solid or saran wrap? This may or may not work depending on the size of the aerogel.



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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 13:40


What happens if you drop the aerogel in water? If your hypothesis is correct, the aerogel should absorb the water immediately with the loss of air as bubbles when submerged.



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Random
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 15:40


Al foil will float on SF6
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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 15:53


Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force  
What happens if you drop the aerogel in water? If your hypothesis is correct, the aerogel should absorb the water immediately with the loss of air as bubbles when submerged.

Indeed. If he's correct, then one giant chunk lightly lacquered should still be "un-dense " enough (Sorry, no real word would fit here) to "float".

Back to the initial subject. Maybe if a 'not dense' liquid with a denser ferrofluid were placed in a container, with the object to be launched suspended in-between, a strong magnetic force could pull up the ferrofluid, giving force to the object on top... :) Just kidding :P That'd require ridiculous magnetic force, besides being inconvenient.




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elementcollector1
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 17:00


Yeah... I'd much prefer it if this didn't involve closed containers - I would rather like to carry this around... :P
Is the word you're looking for "light"? :D

The problem here is that there is no as of yet known way of creating gravitational force itself without manipulating mass - if I had that, we'd be done here...
So, I must make do with what essentially comes down to magic tricks. Such as ridiculously strong, self-adjusting jetstreams.

Another thing I'd forgotten to mention is that I would also like it to be able to attract objects from a great distance - my initial plan for this was a massive and very strong electromagnet, but you can see above why that was dismissed. This would not work with air jet - type setups, as it would have to somehow be a very 'directed' jet to attract in such a manner.

I wonder if anyone (except IrC)'s caught on to what exactly I'm trying to imitate yet...? :)




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bismuthate
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 17:12


My vast psionic abilities?



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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 17:37


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Yeah... I'd much prefer it if this didn't involve closed containers - I would rather like to carry this around... :P
Is the word you're looking for "light"? :D

The problem here is that there is no as of yet known way of creating gravitational force itself without manipulating mass - if I had that, we'd be done here...
So, I must make do with what essentially comes down to magic tricks. Such as ridiculously strong, self-adjusting jetstreams.

Another thing I'd forgotten to mention is that I would also like it to be able to attract objects from a great distance - my initial plan for this was a massive and very strong electromagnet, but you can see above why that was dismissed. This would not work with air jet - type setups, as it would have to somehow be a very 'directed' jet to attract in such a manner.

I wonder if anyone (except IrC)'s caught on to what exactly I'm trying to imitate yet...? :)


Nope, haven't caught on. This doesn't exactly seem chemistry -like though.
You could always manipulate volume instead of mass to stimulate gravitational force :D This post is totally gonna get detritus soon...




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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 17:58
how about plasma?


How about levitating and projecting plasma?
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 18:12


Quote: Originally posted by quantumchromodynamics  
How about levitating and projecting plasma?

That'd be really loud and annoying (anyone who's used a plasma cutter would know). Plus I fail to understand what you're describing. Mind elaborating?




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elementcollector1
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 18:13


Not sure why it'd get Detritus'd - after all, this is Miscellaneous, and it is still technically science.
Here, let me give you the answer in the most obvious way possible.

I suppose manipulating volume would essentially be working with pressure, which is pretty much the "air-jet" approach...

EDIT: I have looked into "plasma railguns" to give me the effects I need, but the power supply is ludicrous and the things are, in fact, very loud. Also, high voltage plasma arcs = not fun.

[Edited on 5-22-2014 by elementcollector1]




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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 18:33


Acoustic levitation!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_levitation
Use ultrasound to be inaudible.




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elementcollector1
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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 19:13


Ooh, that sounds good. Maximum weight capacity of a few kilograms is still something I can get behind.
So I guess that covers levitation - what about attraction and launch?




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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 20:13


Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Acoustic levitation!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_levitation
Use ultrasound to be inaudible.

Wouldn't there be issues with the sound disintegrating the object?




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[*] posted on 21-5-2014 at 20:56


Having read the title of this post, I thought you might be going to delve into a 'mystery' I vaguely remember from literally my childhood......an article in the Daily Express ( UK newspaper) around 1970 which described the invention of a 'Mad Scientist' who configured a set of magnets and a flywheel ( made of ??) into a strange machine which he then attached to a mains powered electric motor ( very vague.....)
On firing it up, the 'thing' levitated and then with some violence, took off, ripped the power cord from the mains and.....continued to rise at some speed and disappeared upwards never to be seen again.
I have been unable to find this article in any record, it was not in the April 1st issue, and myself can see absolutely no reason why it would display any anti-gravity properties.
Then again, how many inventions have been discovered accidentally by bumbling amateurs...............

Is it possible he found a way of producing gravitons?? Or more likely some sort of gravity shielding allowing the 'thing' to escape??

All very Sci-fi, but perhaps in 200 years time when a proper scientist stumbles on whatever the mad one did, we will know the answer.
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[*] posted on 22-5-2014 at 05:55


Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force  
What happens if you drop the aerogel in water? If your hypothesis is correct, the aerogel should absorb the water immediately with the loss of air as bubbles when submerged.


Good question, I'll have to try this under more controlled conditions. I washed out the fish tank with lots of water but didn't get a chance to observe anything. Afterwards, the aerogel seems to turn back into a regular gel.

@Random: We tried floating Al foil boats on it and came pretty close, but could never quite get it to work. This was for a stage show, so we didn't want to be fumbling with making rafts for 30 minutes and scrapped that idea fairly quickly. I've seen it done, though. There's some delicate balance of size, weight, displacement, and making sure the gas is settled as much as possible.
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[*] posted on 22-5-2014 at 16:12
air vs water, filling pores


Be careful here. The surface tension, cohesiveness, adhesiveness (amongst other properties) of these two are sufficiently different that you shouldn't assume that water will fill pores that air does. For example, we have filters made of Teflon with 0.45 um pores. I can such air through them easily. But unless I pre-wet them with an organic solvent, water takes a fair amount of pressure to get forced into the pores. Or activated carbon - you have to boil it under a vacuum to get aqueous solutions to displace the air in the pores, at least for some types of carbon.
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[*] posted on 23-5-2014 at 14:57


elementcollector1 "I wonder if anyone (except IrC)'s caught on to what exactly I'm trying to imitate yet...?"

Don't ask me I'm having great difficulty getting this Lime to fit through that hole I bored in a Coconut. After 42 years I still don't know what the hell that song means.

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[*] posted on 23-5-2014 at 18:34


I think experimenting with acoustics would be the most interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669AcEBpdsY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJxJRAxdFU

Not exactly 'portable' but, way cool. Still in the range of amateur science though,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy1w6rTpC2g

edit - I experimented with some really basic magnetic levitation in the classic bismuth plate experiments. Was a lot harder to set up then I had anticipated.

[Edited on 24-5-2014 by smaerd]




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[*] posted on 23-5-2014 at 21:37


Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
I think experimenting with acoustics would be the most interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669AcEBpdsY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odJxJRAxdFU

Not exactly 'portable' but, way cool. Still in the range of amateur science though,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy1w6rTpC2g

edit - I experimented with some really basic magnetic levitation in the classic bismuth plate experiments. Was a lot harder to set up then I had anticipated.

[Edited on 24-5-2014 by smaerd]


These, but with a very fixed and stable focal point. Nice videos! Although judging from the third video, I once again don't like the power requirements... And the size of the things involved. What's more foreboding is that I'm hoping to accomplish this using 2 sound emitters at 60 degree angles from the target object... And have the target object have a substantial mass.

Any ideas on nonmagnetic attraction?




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