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bb911gt4
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[*] posted on 10-1-2014 at 18:20
Nitromethane Sensitizers


Hey guys,
I'm looking for ways to sensitize nitromethane. I'm aware of the amines and amine salts, but those are hazardous and hard to get ahold of. I'm also aware of aluminum powder and resin balloons.

Is there anything else I should look into. Citing references is appreciated.
Thanks
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[*] posted on 10-1-2014 at 19:41


Nitric acid has proved useful here a 70%nm 30%HNO3 mix is good, Giving a mixture about as sensitive as NG. there actually are a couple of other threads on this topic already,just search the site and you will likely come up with the answers you want. Any answers given here would just be going over what is detailed in the other threads. There's a lot of sensitisers out there some better than others.



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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 02:04


If you're really desperate, H2SO4 sensitizes NM or ANNM.
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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 02:51


ammonia is a good sensitizer for NM. the addition of 5-6% ammonia to NM transform NM to a cap sensitive explosive. a good review on nitrometane (application in shaped charge, discussion of sensitizers) can be foud here:

http://www.wydawnictwa.ipo.waw.pl/cejem/vol-9-1-2012/Shekhar...

Dany.
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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 04:28


Speaking of witch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU3TIpoMQN4
So you can dissolve dry ammonia in NM? I've also heard of some dangerous addition of alkali basis to NM. If they can sensitize NM with ammonia, can I do it hydrazine hydrate? :D
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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 08:21


Thanks for that PDF Dany!
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[*] posted on 11-1-2014 at 15:40


Or there's one of mine that worked. In YouTube search for nitromethane/HNO3 shaped charge 115mls, that was a good application of NM in a shaped charge setup. And went well into the sledgehammer head that was the target. More sc videos are coming soon.



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[*] posted on 12-1-2014 at 07:26


Thanks guys, does anyone know how stable the ammonia/nitromethane mixture is? Does it break down after a certain period of time?
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[*] posted on 12-1-2014 at 09:07


The fastest Velocity in this decument mentions 5300m/s.
Not bad, but I rather save mine for ANNM.

I wonder if the advantage of the more even filling of the SC is worth the worse performance in general.


I wonder what "polyox" is supposed to be, Polyethylene glycole?
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[*] posted on 27-9-2014 at 12:21
NM


Tested composition. Simple composition. No ammonium nitrate. Only Glass microballoons + aluminum (flakes leaves) + nitromethane + nitrocellulose:
nitromethane .......... 67
Al ............................... 20............ (10-25)
NC2 (12,4N) .............10..............(6 -12).......(or 13,1%N and more)
microballoons.............3..............(1 - 4)
No.8 cap sensitive. The composition works in a wide range of ratios.
LL
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[*] posted on 27-9-2014 at 21:28
This makes # 2500 of my posts



Strong bases that can induce Nitronate tautomerism such as organic Amines and anhydrous Alkali , because hydrated forms promote dissociation. Anything that will produce an ionic solution. Alkali and Alkaline hydrides and acetylides. Typically ~ 5 % ( 1 part in twenty ) of the whole charge as with PLX is sufficient. Soluble inorganic oxidizers , Sodium Nitrite should work well ( I think ). 6.1 parts by weight CH3NO2 to 6.9 parts NaNO2 is stoichiometric.
2 CH3NO2 + 2 NaNO2 => Na2O + 2 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2


.

[Edited on 28-9-2014 by franklyn]
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[*] posted on 21-10-2014 at 10:44


Nitromethane detonator with 100 mg of Lead azide :

8,5 g Nitromethane
1,5 g hydrazine
or
1,0 g Hydrazine with 0,5 g Diethylenetriamine
____________________________________

Question :

How detonation velocity may have a mixture of composition :

Nitromethane with Picric acid and Morpholine as a sensitiser
( 51/44/6 )

Picric acid is highly soluble ( 87,5 % ) by weight at room temperature, in nitromethane.

Patent number : 5,140,908
Liquid Explosive With Initiator
http://www.google.com/patents/US5140908


[Edited on 21-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]

US4006687.jpg - 274kB

[Edited on 21-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
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[*] posted on 21-10-2014 at 11:17


Here's a video in which he mixes Nitric Acid and Nitromethane.
http://vimeo.com/98873406
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[*] posted on 21-10-2014 at 12:11


100ml PLX
Main Charge: 100ml PLX Nitromethane/Diethylenetriamine
Detonator: 0.20g Lead Azide / 2.5g Smokeless Gunpowder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br-f1Ls9hZ0&list=UUJmTt3c...

[Edited on 21-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
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[*] posted on 23-10-2014 at 15:33


Quote: Originally posted by forgotpassword  
Here's a video in which he mixes Nitric Acid and Nitromethane.
http://vimeo.com/98873406

If you read correctly the text inside the video, it is actually nitrobenzene and Red Fuming Nitric Acid (RFNA) (28/72 mix by weight a Sprengel's explosive called Hellhoffite).
There are many such mixes: All are relatively unstable and non storage advisable
NM/HNO3
Acetonitrile/HNO3
benzene/HNO3
Nitrobenzene/HNO3
MNT or DNT/HNO3
...

Sensitizers for NM...
Hydrazine
hydroxylamine
Ethylene diamine
Nitroglycerine
N2O4
concentrated H2O2




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[*] posted on 24-10-2014 at 13:04


Sorry man, just glanced over the text, at least I provided something remotely relevant.

You forgot liquid O2, I heard that sensitizes Nitrobenzene.
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[*] posted on 31-10-2014 at 04:19


Has anyone got acces to the paper "Non-Solid Explosives for Shaped Charges. Part II" as mentioned in the document Dany posted?



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[*] posted on 31-10-2014 at 07:27


Let's collect and merge a few redundant threads on NM sensitizers to reduce clutter-



Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:

1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it that way.”
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4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.

Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).

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31-10-2014 at 07:27
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[*] posted on 2-11-2014 at 00:41


Triethylamine is applicable.
______

Triethylamine is prepared by the alkylation of ammonia with ethanol: NH3 + 3 C2H5OH → N(C2H5)3 + 3 H2O
______

Ethylamine is produced on a large scale by two processes. Most commonly ethanol and ammonia are combined in the presence of an oxide catalyst:
In this reaction, ethylamine is coproduced together with diethylamine and triethylamine.
CH3CH2OH + NH3 → CH3CH2NH2 + H2O








[Edited on 2-11-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
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[*] posted on 6-10-2017 at 04:09


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  

Strong bases that can induce Nitronate tautomerism such as organic Amines and anhydrous Alkali , because hydrated forms promote dissociation. Anything that will produce an ionic solution. Alkali and Alkaline hydrides and acetylides. Typically ~ 5 % ( 1 part in twenty ) of the whole charge as with PLX is sufficient. Soluble inorganic oxidizers , Sodium Nitrite should work well ( I think ). 6.1 parts by weight CH3NO2 to 6.9 parts NaNO2 is stoichiometric.
2 CH3NO2 + 2 NaNO2 => Na2O + 2 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2


.

[Edited on 28-9-2014 by franklyn]


I tried to detonate a 50/50 mix of NM and sodium nitrite. Of course, sodium nitrite is almost no soluble in NM and remains as a powder al the bottom. It still acts as a base and little amounts results in color change of NM.
Detonation was performed with 50 mg SADS + 50 mg MHN and judging the results it was only a partial detonation (there was some black smoke). Also dealing with nitrous acid is not the best think to do. Also had no success with 2% hexamine.
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[*] posted on 8-10-2017 at 05:30


Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter  
Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  

Strong bases that can induce Nitronate tautomerism such as organic Amines and anhydrous Alkali , because hydrated forms promote dissociation. Anything that will produce an ionic solution. Alkali and Alkaline hydrides and acetylides. Typically ~ 5 % ( 1 part in twenty ) of the whole charge as with PLX is sufficient. Soluble inorganic oxidizers , Sodium Nitrite should work well ( I think ). 6.1 parts by weight CH3NO2 to 6.9 parts NaNO2 is stoichiometric.
2 CH3NO2 + 2 NaNO2 => Na2O + 2 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2


.

[Edited on 28-9-2014 by franklyn]


I tried to detonate a 50/50 mix of NM and sodium nitrite. Of course, sodium nitrite is almost no soluble in NM and remains as a powder al the bottom. It still acts as a base and little amounts results in color change of NM.
Detonation was performed with 50 mg SADS + 50 mg MHN and judging the results it was only a partial detonation (there was some black smoke). Also dealing with nitrous acid is not the best think to do. Also had no success with 2% hexamine.

The NaNO2 will only set traces amounts of HNO2 free from the natural acidity of CH3-NO2 in anhydrous system...even if water is present the quantity will be very low...

The following reactions will catch it as it forms:
NaNO2 --water--> Na(+) + NO2(-)
CH3-NO2 <==--> CH2=N(O)-OH --water--> CH2=N(O)-O(-) + H(+)
H(+) + NO2(-) <----> HO-N=O <----> H2O + N2O3
HO-N=O <----> HO(-) + NO(+)
CH2=N(O)-O (-) + NO(+) <--==> CH2(-NO)-NO2
HO(-) + H(+) <----> H2O

CH3-NO2 or NM burns smokeless nitrite eventually with NxOy fumes... no black smoke...
==> The smoke comes from the container, the fuse or the detonator/detonating mix.




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[*] posted on 9-10-2017 at 10:49


Thank you for your answer. Yes, the container was made from plastic, so it makes sense. I get a little dissapointed, hoped it could sensitize NM like potassium chlorate.

By the way, the compound CH2(-NO)-NO2 is N-methyl-N-nitrohydroxylamine? Can it be isolated pure or as a salt?
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[*] posted on 9-10-2017 at 15:45


Nitrosonitromethane is unstable just like dinitromethane (a related molecule (only one O atom of difference on one of its N atom); unstability is caused by the EWG effect (electron withdrawing group) what favorises the conversion/transposition of the nitro group into a nitrito one and this last one is very prone to hydrolysis or decomposition...
EWG-C-NO2 <----> EWG-C-O-N=O
EWG-C-O-N=O <----> EWG-C-O(-) + NO(+)
EWG-C-O-N=O <----> EWG-C(-) + NO2(+)
Edit note:
Some substituants of the C atoms have been left aside for convenience purpose; those can be C or H atoms.

Nitrosonitromethane is in equilibrium with an oximic form or a nitronic form...
O=N-CH=N(O)-OH (nitronic)<----> O=N-CH2-NO2 <----> HO-N=CH-NO2 (oximic)

Theorically...the molecule could be a diacid and should be related to nitrocyanide oxyde (O=N#C-NO2) and to its dimer dinitrofuroxane...
HO-N=CH-NO2 <--> HO-N=C=N(O)-OH <--> (-)O-N=C=N(O)-O(-) + 2H(+)

The salt formation is indeed a way to stabilize a little the molecule...
Such salts are sensitive to friction/heat/shock...

During the formation from bases usually a lot of side reactions happens including condensation, multimerization, additions, eliminations, transposition, rearrangements... also disporportionations (intramolecular or extramolecular oxydoredox reactions)
==> thus a very complex chemistry; hence difficulty to get pure products.

[Edited on 10-10-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 22-12-2017 at 17:48


What are some good non energetic gelling compounds for nitromethane? Reading the wikipedia page on PLX i came across this quote.

"Trzciński reports that 200 grams of a mixture of NM with PMMA as gelling agent and AlMg (45:55, mean particle size = 63 microns) as fuel, in a ratio of 67.2/2.8/30 by mass, has a peak overpressure of 120 kPa 2 m from the (open air) blast site, a 1.65 TNT equivalency in peak pressure, and a 1.62 equivalency in shockwave impulse."

PMMA referring to Poly(methyl methacrylate) aka acrylic was used in the above mixture. I have tried to use acrylic powder in the past but all i got was a blob of gel suspended in the liquid nitromethane.
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[*] posted on 24-12-2017 at 09:03


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/prep.200900041/ab...
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