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Author: Subject: Readily Available Chemicals Website: Version 2
Esplosivo
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[*] posted on 27-1-2005 at 12:42


The remainder should be water, if the ethanol is sold at a pharmacy. Methanol metabolism can have some nasty effects on the body if you know what I mean ;) I used to buy such ethanol but nowadays I buy it from suppliers, far cheaper heh. 'Surgical spirit' as it is known here is a mixture of ethanol and water, with approx. 95% ethanol as stated.



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[*] posted on 27-1-2005 at 17:11
Chemical lists


I Am A Fish, thank you for your very informative and comprehensive list of chemical
suppliers. Chloric1, the ceramics suppliers you listed have more compounds than
the local supplier - very impressive !

LeonardNimoy, get a fucking clue ! The majority of those chemicals have so many
uses that banning them would have a serious economic impact on many industries.




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[*] posted on 27-1-2005 at 19:40
couldn't resist


Quote:

The majority of those chemicals have so many uses that banning them would have a serious economic impact on many industries.


Do you mean chemicals such as methylamine, acetic anhydride, red P, P2O5, any other useful P cpd, LAH, pyridine, nitroethane, benzyl chloride, formamide, and thionyl chloride?

Chemicals are not banned for industries, they apply for licenses. Chemicals end up banned for sale to individuals, and this is the problem. Or the gov't threatens well-known distributors, such as Firefox. P2O5 isn't on any list, yet no one sells it to individuals AFAIK. I think that there are good reasons why few companies sell many useful chems to people, even unlisted ones that don't have shipping problems. It wouldn't surprise me if few suppliers would continue to sell chemicals to companies known to resell to individuals.

Regulation will continue to evolve until no one is making drugs or explosives. List 2 chemicals will continue to be upgraded to list 1. With talk about meth manufacturers and terrorists, no one is going to hesitate to further restrict sales of any chemical to individuals, if LE decided to press the issue. Really, how much of an outcry do you think there would be if single-ingredient acetone was suddenly banned? HCl and toluene are disappearing, store by store, around here. No law against them, just people thinking that they are doing the right thing.

Personally, I think that it is best for everyone involved to stay as low-profile as possible, you know, the nail sticking out and the squeaky wheel thing.
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[*] posted on 27-1-2005 at 20:55


Should be ethanol + water, although I can't find any MSDS info and it says "for external use only".

However, it says on the bottle that the sole ingredient is "ethanol anhydrous 95% v/v" so I would take that to mean it is only ethanol.
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[*] posted on 27-1-2005 at 22:03


Quote:
Originally posted by Chris The GreatJust one little note: for isopropyl alcohol, it is not mentioned that it can be bought, 99% pure at your local pharmacy.


I've found isopropanol fairly cheap and readily available at hardware stores and electronics suppliers (also goes by names such as "cleaning alcohol" and is the same as video cleaning fluid). The hardware store sells it 100% pure apparently, and 95% at a local electronics supplier.




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[*] posted on 28-1-2005 at 07:49


About the 'Surgical spirit', I think it contains some propan-2-ol though I am not completely sure. This would probably make the ethanol 'duty-free' since the mixture is probably undrinkable. Must check this out though. I'm fairly sure that if propanol is added it is in low concentrations.



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[*] posted on 28-1-2005 at 12:55


I've also seen surgical spirit from the pharmacists with wintergreen or something in it (and possibly other denaturants) which gave it a weird 'medicated' smell like muscular heat-rub or something. It can be distilled though. The undyed methylated spirit from the chemist (UK) is called IMS -industrial methylated spirits- and it does have methanol and some water in (min. 90% EtOH).

Edit: every chemist will sell 'rubbing alcohol' (thats probably the best way to ask for it too ;) ) which is min. 70% IPA and water.

[Edited on 28-1-2005 by UpNatom]
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[*] posted on 29-1-2005 at 03:28


Quote:
Originally posted by S.C. Wack
Do you mean chemicals such as methylamine, acetic anhydride, red P, P2O5, any other useful P cpd, LAH, pyridine, nitroethane, benzyl chloride, formamide, and thionyl chloride?


Are those chemicals actually banned, or are they merely watched? A lot of "suspicious" chemicals are readily available (in particular, solvents). It could be that the chemicals you list have no practical application outside of the lab.

Quote:
Chemicals are not banned for industries, they apply for licenses. Chemicals end up banned for sale to individuals, and this is the problem. Or the gov't threatens well-known distributors, such as Firefox. P2O5 isn't on any list, yet no one sells it to individuals AFAIK. I think that there are good reasons why few companies sell many useful chems to people, even unlisted ones that don't have shipping problems. It wouldn't surprise me if few suppliers would continue to sell chemicals to companies known to resell to individuals.


There are other plausible reasons why companies may not sell to private individuals. (I am not saying they're true, only that they're possible.)

1. They may be trying to insulate themselves against unprofitable small orders.

2. It may be overly complicated to differentiate between chemicals that can be safely handled by a careful amateur and those requiring specialist equipment. Professional chemists would (I hope) only order chemicals they have the facilities to handle, whilst amateur chemists can't necessarily be relied upon. For example, if a home experimenter was to buy a cylinder of fluorine, the supplier would probably be held responsible for the consequences.

3. They may simply have no experience of selling to private individuals and expect company information as a matter of routine.

Quote:
Regulation will continue to evolve until no one is making drugs or explosives. List 2 chemicals will continue to be upgraded to list 1. With talk about meth manufacturers and terrorists, no one is going to hesitate to further restrict sales of any chemical to individuals, if LE decided to press the issue. Really, how much of an outcry do you think there would be if single-ingredient acetone was suddenly banned? HCl and toluene are disappearing, store by store, around here. No law against them, just people thinking that they are doing the right thing.


Pure chemicals may be disappearing, but is that a matter of supply or demand? I expect many people would prefer to buy a mixture sold for a particular function, than some chemical they've never heard of.

I expect the banning of many chemicals would greatly inconvenience lot of people. For example, whilst many DIY enthusiasts would barely notice the loss of acetone, many professionals and serious amateurs would rue the loss of a powerful and fast drying solvent.

The same goes for fertilisers. Whilst most gardeners want mixed fertiliser (for the sake of convenience), serious gardeners and smallholders will want something specific to their needs. For example, if land suffers only from a nitrogen deficiency, a serious gardener will want to buy urea or ammonium nitrate, rather than wasting money on an unsuitable mixture.

Swimming pool owners will always need chlorinating agents. Potters and serious artists will always need a wide range of pigments. Brewers will always need sterilisers, additives and nutrients. The chemicals in all of these examples could conceivably be diluted. However, swimming pool chemicals are bulky enough as it is, potters want to attain colours that would be impossible without pure colourants and brewers don't want to add unnecessary ingredients to their drinks.

It would be impossible to ban all pure chemicals without infuriating vast numbers of people. Some people would tolerate such bans if brought an end to drug crime and terrorism, but that's never going to happen.




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[*] posted on 29-1-2005 at 08:53
Acetone


Not so sure I agree what you say about acetone disappearing would be unnoticed. I remember in 2002 Wal-mart, at least in this area, put a 3 gallon limit on Acetone purchase. Later the signs where removed and I bet some griping wa the cause of this. This stuff is used in fiberglass work especially marine related along with MEK. Other solvents or mixtures thereof may lack the potentcy of ketones especially when working with spray paint,resins, and plastics. The aromatics on the otherhand...I know I can still buy toluene and Xylene at least at one source right off the top of my head maybe two. Also, the Internet helps to keep "specialty" markets alive.

If they do decide to ban acetone, then ours respective governments have outlived their usefullness anyways and it would be time for a major overhaul.




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[*] posted on 29-1-2005 at 12:03


This government has little concern over what many small groups of people want or think. It might take testimony from groups, but that doesn't mean that it will sway them, no matter how rational, unless they have a lot of money.

Ammonium nitrate is not sold in nurseries here - except at co-ops to farmers whose faces are known. Orders of it by non-farmers have brought police with it. Theft of 100 pounds brings police and media hysteria. The home fertilizers here are now urea-based. Even the big landscaper supply companies here don't have any nitrate-based fertilizer, ammonium or otherwise, even though there are ammonium nitrate plants in the area. Pool chemicals could always be restricted to people in the business with licenses for handling them. There are alternatives to the widely used pool chemicals. Don't underestimate what can be done in the name of safety.

We are the people who are giving life sentences in prison to people stealing a single doughnut. No sentence for possessing 100 pseudoephedrine tablets is too extreme here. There really is a blank check as to what the justice system can get away with here.

Well, we'll just have to see, because I am talking about the slow creeping of many small regulations. Regulation whether in the name of drugs, explosives, the environment, or public safety. I'm talking about the gradual changes in attitude and education of the public, business practices, policies, and economic dynamics of industry over a long period of time eroding the practice of chemistry, not sudden mass actions. I never said anything about banning all chemicals. It would be more sensible to legislators to simply ban the practice of chemistry and purchase of glassware without a license, mail-order chemicals to individuals, and to require more record-keeping by retailers. There is already federal law on the books about distillation equipment, it just isn't enforced in non-alcohol situations. But of course there are states with their own glassware laws.

I am talking about the banning of useful chemicals. Something such as bisulfite, though useful, is not quite as useful as I am thinking of. H2SO4 is a good example. KOH has already been banned for consumer use, and an attempt was made to get H2SO4 to join it last year. I listed the chemicals that I did because they are good examples of what are not sold to individuals, but are used by the ton in industry - the point of my post was that Title 21 regulations have little end impact on industry, only people outside it. Since you don't know what chemicals are listed or watched in the US as drug-related, though this has been mentioned elsewhere on this site:

(a) List I chemicals
(1) Anthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts
(2) Benzyl cyanide
(3) Ephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(4) Ergonovine and its salts
(5) Ergotamine and its salts
(6) N-Acetylanthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts
(7) Norpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(8) Phenylacetic acid, its esters, and its salts
(9) Phenylpropanolamine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(10) Piperidine and its salts
(11) Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(12) 3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone
(13) Methylamine and its salts
(14) Ethylamine and its salts
(15) Propionic anhydride
(16) Isosafrole
(17) Safrole
(18) Piperonal
(19) N-Methylephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(20) N-Methylpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
(21) Hydriodic Acid
(22) Benzaldehyde
(23) Nitroethane
(24) Gamma-Butyrolactone (Other names include: GBL; Dihydro-2 (3H)-furanone; 1,2-Butanolide; 1,4-Butanolide; 4-Hydroxybutanoic acid lactone; gamma-hydroxybutyric acid lactone)
(25) Red Phosphorus
(26) White phosphorus (Other names: Yellow Phosphorus)
(27) Hypophosphorous acid and its salts
(including ammonium hypophosphite, calcium hypophosphite, iron hypophosphite, potassium hypophosphite, manganese hypophosphite, magnesium hypophosphite, and sodium hypophosphite

(b) List II chemicals:
(1) Acetic anhydride
(2) Acetone
(3) Benzyl chloride
(4) Ethyl ether
(5) Potassium permanganate
(6) 2-Butanone (or Methyl Ethyl Ketone or MEK)
(7) Toluene
(8) Hydrochloric acid (including anhydrous hydrogen chloride)
(9) Sulfuric acid
(10) Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIBK)
(11) Iodine

The Comprehensive Methamphetamine Control Act of 1996 (MCA) makes it unlawful for any person to distribute a laboratory supply to a person who uses, or attempts to use, that laboratory supply to manufacture a controlled substance or a listed chemical, with reckless disregard for the illegal uses to which such laboratory supply will be put. Individuals who violate this provision are subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000; businesses which violate this provision are subject to a civil penalty of not more than $250,000. The term "laboratory supply" is defined as "a listed chemical or any chemical, substance, or item on a special surveillance list published by the Attorney General, which contains chemicals, products, materials, or equipment used in the manufacture of controlled substances and listed chemicals."

Special Surveillance List
Chemicals

All listed chemicals as specified in 21 CFR § 1310.02 (a) or (b) or 21 U.S.C. § 802 (34) or (35). This includes all chemical mixtures and all over-the-counter (OTC) products and dietary supplements which contain a listed chemical, regardless of their dosage form or packaging and regardless of whether the chemical mixture, drug product or dietary supplement is exempt from regulatory controls.

Ammonia Gas
Ammonium Formate
Bromobenzene
1,1-Carbonyldiimidazole
Cyclohexanone
1,1-Dichloro-1-fluoroethane (e.g., Freon 141B)
Diethylamine and its salts
2,5-Dimethoxyphenethylamine and its salts
Formamide
Formic Acid
Hypophosphorous Acid
Lithium Metal
Lithium Aluminum Hydride
Magnesium Metal (Turnings)
Mercuric Chloride
N-Methylformamide
Organomagnesium Halides (Grignard Reagents) (e.g., ethylmagnesium bromide and phenyl-magnesium bromide)
Phenylethanolamine and its salts
Phosphorus Pentachloride
Potassium Dichromate
Pyridine and its salts
Red Phosphorus
Sodium Dichromate
Sodium Metal
Thionyl Chloride
ortho-Toluidine
Trichloromonofluoromethane (e.g., Freon-11, Carrene-2)
Trichlorotrifluoroethane (e.g., Freon 113)

Equipment
Hydrogenators
Tableting Machines
Encapsulating Machines
22 Liter Heating Mantels
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[*] posted on 30-1-2005 at 06:14


The Land of the Free*

*Terms and conditions apply. Fair trials are only granted to those accused of criminal offences not subject to state and media hysteria. All defendants must pay for a defence lawyer (or be represented by an indifferent and incompetent court appointed lawyer). Probability of being arrested, prosecuted or convicted subject to race.

[Edited on 30-1-2005 by I am a fish]




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[*] posted on 9-2-2005 at 03:55
Bioworld


Found a Website with Froogle this morning. Bio-World. There prices are high and they say antibiotics are forbiden to individuals. Would be a great source of chelating agents, quats, and surfactants though. They do have 500G of Sodium Azide for $55-$60 but I am quite apprehensive about this one. They are having a sale on high purity EDTA though for all you plating and chelating enthusiast!:):D



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[*] posted on 4-3-2005 at 13:10


I want to put my 2 cents worth in here.

The main reason why chemicals are becoming harder to get hold of has little to do with drug-making or terrorism.

Consider this. In the UK, the price of an ecstasy pill has now fallen to £4. 15 years ago it was £20. So all that precursor monitoring hasn't stopped the 'drug barons' doing what they do. Ecstasy is made from piperonyl acetone imported (into the Benelux region) from SE Asia on a huge scale. A premium is paid (doubling the cost) to the supplier so that the containers are mis-labelled. If the Dutch and Belgium cops can't stop this what chance have they of stopping some bathroom chemist or 'cook'?). The clamp-down on sassafras oil hasn't stopped the professional criminal expanding production to the point where they're practically giving it away.

There are, at most, a few hundred chemicals that are restricted or watched as precursors. That doesn't explain why a minor supplier wouldn't even post me a catalog until I'd given a good explanation of what I wanted to do with the chemicals in the catalog (chemicals which I hadn't tried to order!!).

The main factor here is safety consciousness - big companies are terrified of someone accusing them of unsafe practices; and there are some people who consider any chemical in any quantity to be unsafe (environmentalists).

It will be risk-consciousness in general (over health and environmental fears) that sees further restrictions on sales to individuals - not fears about terrorists nor drug-makers.

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by CherrieBaby]
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[*] posted on 4-3-2005 at 19:19


There are not many industrial suppliers of anything that will sell to an individual. You need to set up a corporate account, get an account number which will be billed for everything. Down stream supply companies do not usually accept cash, cheques or credit cards. Once you have an account number or customer number and an order number and a VAT/Tax number, everything usual goes straight through. All that stuff is usually sorted out between 2 accounting department with agreed automatic discounts, minimum charges etc and once supplied as agreed the buyer accepts all current and future responsibilty
Most chemicals that an individual buys have already been sold and repackaged a few times.
Anyway you can buy better kit for cooking now than than the average research chemist had a few years ago. I do not think you can ever say that no one will sort out a new/novel prep for anything, just depends on the necessity.

mick
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[*] posted on 4-3-2005 at 19:48


Yes the major chemical suppliers want to sell only to other companies with account numbers, etc. But I think this is due to government pressure, however misguided. It is a quick and easy way to cut off all the little guys like us. This really pisses me off as it implies that individuals break the law but big companies do not - and we all know that is a lie. It comes down to what they can do conveniently and with few complaints. You and I are not going to complain to our congressman about restricting supplies for our home lab.

I don't agree about being sued over misuse of chemicals. Everyone can buy all the gasoline and pesticides that they want, no questions asked. People can and do cause a lot of environmental damage and personal injuries with these items. But it would simply be too inconvenient to restrict them and there would be too many complaints from the public, so they don't.




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[*] posted on 5-3-2005 at 20:53


Heres a few things I found at stores (I live in the US):

Copper foil - sold at hardware store as copper roof flashing
Tantalum strips - used in capacitors, easy to get in small amounts (No idea what it would be useful for)
Powdered graphite - used as a lubricant, sold at hardware stores
Americium buttons - used in smoke detectors (although I never actually extracted it)

Also a good site for finding some common elements is:
http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/index.html

I hope this helps, I would really hate to see a nice hobby like chemistry go to waste because of lack of reagents.
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[*] posted on 15-4-2005 at 06:01
Version 2.1


I have uploaded version 2.1 of "Readily Available Chemicals". Many new chemicals and suppliers have been added. I have also created a "List of All Suppliers" page.

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed information.




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[*] posted on 18-4-2005 at 22:29


Quote:
Originally posted by chloric1
Found a Website with Froogle this morning. Bio-World. There prices are high and they say antibiotics are forbiden to individuals. Would be a great source of chelating agents, quats, and surfactants though. They do have 500G of Sodium Azide for $55-$60 but I am quite apprehensive about this one. They are having a sale on high purity EDTA though for all you plating and chelating enthusiast!:):D

I assume I shouldn't have any problems importing sodium azide from the US into Canada?




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[*] posted on 4-5-2005 at 18:17


I am a fish,

Thank you for your efforts. I own neither a jam jar nor a turkey baster, but I am still able to make good use of your information for the students in my class.

I was helped here a little while ago on a search, I hope I can return a bit of what I learned in repayment:

- An interesting and regularly updated ceramics supply database is at http://digitalfire.ab.ca/cermat. (Apologies if this was mentioned before.)

- That website also has this note about products sold as plain ‘copper carbonate’:
“Copper carbonate is green powder and a useful source of copper oxide for staining bodies and glazes. Conceptually, copper carbonate is CuCO3, however this form is not normally available in the market (copper carbonate basic is the article of commerce) so the powder should be viewed as a family of compounds.”
The few sources I have tried are indeed green copper carbonate basic, aka the mineral malachite, aka Cu2(CO3)(OH)2, aka Copper(II) Carbonate Dihydroxide . In fact, I’ve not found any source for true CuCO3, and several people in this forum in other threads have suggested that CuCO3 may not exist in a normal environment. (This has been my limited experience in the US, other people may have better info, corrections welcome.)

- Kremer Pigments also sells powdered azurite (mineral), aka blue copper carbonate basic, aka Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2 (I don’t know the IUPAC name.) It’s highly refined, but may still contain natural impurities.

- Copper plumbing is made from very pure copper and is available at most hardware stores.

Edit: Forgot one -- Home Depot (USA) sells copper sulfate as root killer in the plumbing dept. BTW, what is a "water butt"?

Z

[Edited on 5-5-2005 by zoomer]
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[*] posted on 8-5-2005 at 11:01


Quote:
Originally posted by zoomer
I am a fish,

Thank you for your efforts. I own neither a jam jar nor a turkey baster, but I am still able to make good use of your information for the students in my class.

I was helped here a little while ago on a search, I hope I can return a bit of what I learned in repayment:

- An interesting and regularly updated ceramics supply database is at http://digitalfire.ab.ca/cermat. (Apologies if this was mentioned before.)


I've come across it before. However, I don't find it particularly useful, because it doesn't tell you where to buy the stuff from.

Quote:
- That website also has this note about products sold as plain ‘copper carbonate’:
“Copper carbonate is green powder and a useful source of copper oxide for staining bodies and glazes. Conceptually, copper carbonate is CuCO3, however this form is not normally available in the market (copper carbonate basic is the article of commerce) so the powder should be viewed as a family of compounds.”
The few sources I have tried are indeed green copper carbonate basic, aka the mineral malachite, aka Cu2(CO3)(OH)2, aka Copper(II) Carbonate Dihydroxide . In fact, I’ve not found any source for true CuCO3, and several people in this forum in other threads have suggested that CuCO3 may not exist in a normal environment. (This has been my limited experience in the US, other people may have better info, corrections welcome.)


Thanks. I knew that pottery suppliers aren't particularly good at giving chemically accurate descriptions of their products, but I didn't know that. I'll look into what they actually supply.

Quote:
- Kremer Pigments also sells powdered azurite (mineral), aka blue copper carbonate basic, aka Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2 (I don’t know the IUPAC name.) It’s highly refined, but may still contain natural impurities.


That's interesting – they sell "malachite" which is also basic copper carbonate. I looked them both up, and they vary only in the ratio of carbonate to hydroxide ions. Whilst azurite is Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2, malachite is Cu2(CO3)(OH)2

Quote:
- Copper plumbing is made from very pure copper and is available at most hardware stores.


I can't believe I missed that.

Quote:
Edit: Forgot one -- Home Depot (USA) sells copper sulfate as root killer in the plumbing dept. BTW, what is a "water butt"?


I've thought of adding high street retailers, but have decided against it, as it would be very difficult to search a shop for every chemical they sell (especially when I live thousands of miles away from the nearest branch). Having only a few chemicals listed would give the false impression that that's all they sell in the way of chemistry.

By the way, a water butt is a big outside tank used to store rainwater for use in gardening.

Thanks for your help,

I am a fish.




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[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 11:03


S.C. Wack, I must respectfully disagree with:
"Regulation will continue to evolve until no one is making drugs or explosives."

That might be some regulator's naive dream, to make so many regulations that these things will stop.

But... They never will stop. Even in the most crushing sort of 1984-like state, there will still be people who continue to commit crime and flout the law. Meanwhile the ordinary person (i.e., most of us) is reduced to having no hobbies except constantly working to get through a gray, depressing existence, worrying the whole time he or she will step out of line in violation of some obscure law that is neither helpful nor just.

Big league criminals can do and get basically anything they want. Truckloads of chemicals are no exception.

Layer upon redundant layer of extra laws and regulations cannot stop criminals who just ignore, bribe, coerce, or influence their way around them.

Same old story with chems as it is for anything else. "We can't do anything about crime syndicates, but we can do something about you, because you're not really a threat. So let's focus on you."
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DeAdFX
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[*] posted on 17-9-2005 at 12:43


http://www.rockler.com/findit.cfm?page=686 a source of peg... This is cheaper than your current list.. 10LB @ 40usd compared to 1lb ~560usd

[Edited on 17-9-2005 by DeAdFX]
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silonyl
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[*] posted on 9-10-2005 at 21:48
re: 95% EtOH


ASSUMING THIS ISN"T DENATURED ALCOHOL
If what you have is 95% pufified ethanol, for lab use, you can be almost sure that the rematining 5% is H2O. EtOH and H2O form an azeotrope, and will distill across as one liquied.

100% EtOH on the otherhand has a third component added to break the azeotrope (I've heard benzene), so that 100% pure EtOH can be recovered.. There may be some conern over benzene in the distillate, though I think the concentration is somethiing like nanomolar tiny..

.s
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The_Davster
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[*] posted on 16-10-2005 at 23:20


Found out a new OTC source of para-dichlorobenzene; urinal cakes. Impurites include tertiary amines and (in some types)fragrances.



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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 17-10-2005 at 07:51
ONE MORE "PAT ON THE BACK"


Great Job! That was a lot of work and you did a fine job. I actually attempted to find somethings that are not "List I" or actually restricted on your list and could not find any that was not covered in the discussion...
----A heck of a lot of work went into that page.
I see the whole issue of restriction of chemicals as a type of "Object-moral relativism"; one of self control. Someone may mis-use a hammer by striking another person; does that mean that the hammers' availability need be controled? The "Object" is simply that. an object. It's the person that has total control of it's use or mis-use.
People who don't see the correlation of chemical restriction to "gun control" or "the War on Drugs" may not be intellectually honest in their world view.....Obviously you would not want drugs to be sold to children nor guns, nor poisons. But at some age people have to take responsibility for their actions and the meer possession of a knife or a chemical need not be a gateway to society's ills.




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