kclo4
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phenol
whare can i get phenol
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BromicAcid
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Chemical suppliers, google, froogle, extration from sore throat spray, reaction of benzene with fentons reagent, reaction of a dizonium salt with
hydroxide, I think there is a decarboxylation method to phenol via benzoic acid in the presence of some catalyst (a copper one I think), hydrolysis of
acetylsalicylic acid follwed by recovery of the salicylic acid and decarboxylation.
Some off the top of my head, may be wrong  I put as much effort in to answering
this as you did of posting it, you can find products containing pheonl by searching.
There is no need to argue if an experiment can be made.
- H. St. C. Deville
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kclo4
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Sorry my internet is a peace of shit it is connected at 28.7 kbps and to make it all better we have a virus that keeps bringing up about : blank but I
have been trying
Internet terrorist should burn in hell
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garage chemist
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Can salicylic acid be decarboxylated via the same procedure as benzoic acid, e.g. by heating sodium salicylate with NaOH/Ca(OH)2?
Decarboxylation of plain SA proceeds much too slow, and a part of the SA just sublimates.
It starts smelling like phenol after a short time, but this doesn't mean anything.
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Esplosivo
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Yes it can, the phenol product does have a brownish tinge though due to aerial oxidation and polymerization of the formed quinones. This is usually
done qualitatively during analyses of organics, but I think it can be carried out on larger batches. I think it would be better to use multiple small
batches than using one large batch - yields will probably show an increase. Sodalime you mentioned is probably better than NaOH alone. Hope this
helps.
Theory guides, experiment decides.
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kclo4
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When BENZOIC ACID decomposes it emits toxic vapors and gas including phenol, benzene, and carbon monoxide according to msds so couldn’t you then
bubble the gases from the decomposed acid threw sulfuric acid then react it with NaOH to get all the benzene to phenol
or would that change the phenol to somthing elts
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Mumbles
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That is why you don't decarboxylate straight benzoic acid. You decarboxalate the sodium salt with NaOH. It runs much cleaner.
| Quote: | | ...then react it with NaOH to get all the benzene to phenol |
BTW, benzene doesn't react with NaOH to produce phenol.
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Cloner
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According to the dangerouslaboratories site, salicylic acid does decompose into phenol during picric acid formation, in the stage of sulfonation.
Unfortunately, it is not as easy as heating it to 150 degrees with sulfuric acid to obtain the well known dark sticky liquid that will contain phenol
in sulfonated form.
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uchiacon
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Guys, does anybody know a common use or industrial use for it?
I came up with phenol resins, but the fuckers won't sell me any because the company forbids it.
Pharmacies are no go, chemical suppliers want $133 for 500g, so I'm going to try podiatry, but I doubt they use pure phenol.
Any other ideas gus?
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not_important
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These days it's either chemical suppliers, or industrial uses where they'll sell you a tanker car of it. If you have access to a time machine, you
could by carbolic acid readily; make sure you bring along appropriately dated money.
It's still used for radical skin peels, but that's most likely a expensive medical product. Remember that if you do find a source such as that, it's
not that difficult to purify the phenol.
If you don't need much then your best bet is to decarboxylate sodium salicylicate, as mentioned above.
If you need a lot, then fusion of benzenesulfonic acid with KOH or mixed NaOH/KOH is likely better. Of course if you can't buy benzene then you're
back to making it via decarboxylation.
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kmno4
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Phenol is very cheap reagent. For 1 kg of phenol of good quality (white or very little pink) you should give no more than ~20 american dollars (not 40
as I have written earlier, little problems with recalculations...  ).
[Edited on 7-11-2009 by kmno4]
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Eclectic
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Heating ASA, Methyl Salicylate, Salicylic Acid with 92-96% H2SO4 should get you p-hydroxybenzenesulfonic acid. You can probably use that for most
synths that call for phenol in sulfuric acid, or dilute and steam distill to recover pure phenol.
Does anyone know if benzenesulfonic acid would distill (190 C) from benzoic acid in hot sulfuric acid as a decarboxilation solvent? Perhaps with a
little copper as catalyst?
[Edited on 11-7-2009 by Eclectic]
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uchiacon
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Oh, so when making trinitrophenol you can use salicylic acid instead of acetylsalicylic acid? I read up about synth of aspirin from salicylic, and it
required acetic anhydride(narcots manufacture) and 85% phosphoric acid. Aspirin is 8 times the price in New Zealand as in other countries. Courtesy to
monopolies.
The chemical supplier was telling me that the phenol was high analytical grade. Around $100USD for 500g lol. However I may not have a choice to buy
from him, none of the industrial users want to sell me any.
If I'm also correct, phenol can't air freight? So I can't get it from America. I'm going to try more industrial users, but I doubt any will give me
any.
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entropy51
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Diazotize aniline in dilute H2SO4, let it warm up, and steam distill out the phenol. Works every time.
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entropy51
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Might Oil of Wintergreen (methyl salicylate) be cheaper than aspirin? I once bought a large bottle in a pharmacy. It might be available in an
aromatherapy shop. Or as horse liniment at a farm store. It might be a major ingredient in an OTC product for muscle soreness. Just a thought.
If you can get that you can hydrolyze with aqeous base at reflux and acidify to get salicylic acid. If need be you could decarboxylate to phenol or
use it directly.
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uchiacon
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Well guys, I, for once, have actually exhausted all possible suppliers of phenol. I found several actually, all willing to sell me 200L of 90% phenol
solution. Below that they would not go, and I've phoned 16 companies in total.
I'm actually surprised, I managed to find pentaerythritol, conc sulfuric, 70% nitric, cheap labware and many hard to obtain chemicals, but I just
can't get phenol. The only suppliers of Methyl salicylate are pharmacies, selling it at about $20 for 100mls. Aspirin is ridiculously over priced,
coming in at $5NZ for 15g acetylsalicylic acid, and after purification that will usually be reduced to 7-10g. If there is anybody else in New Zealand
who has found a cheap source of any of these materials, I'd really love to know, I've been phoning arond these goddam companies for days.
Halp 
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Eclectic
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http://www.gonative.co.nz/shop/Essential+Oils/Wintergreen+essential...
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garage chemist
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If salicylic acid is too expensive for you, you can go via benzene.
Grind sodium benzoate together with NaOH, dry distill with strong heat, fractionate distillate to get benzene.
Then either nitrate, reduce, diazotise and steamdistill,
or sulfonate with conc. H2SO4 (reflux, slow reaction) and fuse sodium benzenesulfonate with NaOH.
Can you get benzoic acid for a reasonable price?
There is also an industrial method for phenol production that employs oxidative decarboxylation of benzoic acid with copper salts as catalyst. This
directly gives phenol instead of benzene.
These are the patents for the process:
Dow Chemical, US 2 727 926, 1954 (W. W. Kaeding, R. O. Lindblom, R. G. Temple).
Dow Chemical, US 2 954 407, 1957 (W. H. Taplin).
Dow Chemical, US 3 235 588, 1962 (C. W. Weaver).
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uchiacon
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Well yes, I can get salicylic acid, but would I have to acetylise it for use in TNP manufacture?
I also found somebody who could sell Nonylphenol, could I change that into phenol? Looks like theres just a Carbon chain that I'd need to snap and I'd
have phenol.
[Edited on 04-07-09 by uchiacon]
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bbartlog
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| Quote: | | Well yes, I can get salicylic acid, but would I have to acetylise it for use in TNP manufacture? |
Note sure what you mean. Acetylating salicylic acid gives you aspirin. I would expect phenol to be part of the TNP synthesis (though I actually don't
know anything about it) which means you would want to decarboxylate the salicylic acid, not acetylate it.
| Quote: | | I also found somebody who could sell Nonylphenol, could I change that into phenol? Looks like theres just a Carbon chain that I'd need to snap and I'd
have phenol. |
This is like saying you just need to pluck the head off a parking meter. Carbon chains are strong. I don't see any clean and easy way to just split
off the alkane under kitchen chemistry conditions, it looks like a job for a petroleum cracking plant. I could imagine a stepwise attack on the end of
the chain (oxidize, decarboxylate, repeat) but that's hardly a practical way to remove nine carbon atoms.
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uchiacon
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Hm, well I might be able to get some last leads on this phenol, but it isn't looking promising. I will probably have to go with salicylic acid, but
I'll need to find a synth somewhere, I don't think I'm as advanced as you lot to be able to calculate whats needed.
I dunno, maybe after 5-6hours combined(throughout the week) of searching, I might be able to find a bit. Fingers crossed. Although, I did find a small
supplier who can sell me a glass aspirator for $38NZ, so I'm pretty happy about that. My last metal aspirator was eaten away by acid, even when the
seller told me it should be fine.
[Edited on 04-07-09 by uchiacon]
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bbartlog
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The patents garagechemist posted (esp. the oldest one) look pretty good, actually. The main aim of the first one is to replace a carboxyl with a
hydroxyl group (they're trying to turn benzoate into phenol); which, if applied to salicylate, would give you catechol instead of phenol. *However*,
they also mention that the benzoate decarboxylation proceeds to benzene if no oxidizing agent is supplied (e.g., no air), so trying their method on
salicylic acid, anaerobically, might get you a decent yield of phenol. The conditions they cite are quite mild as such things go, very stovetop
friendly.
I'm actually in the process of doing various experiments with aspirin / salicylic acid myself, including some attempts to synthesize phenol (there is
a thread in 'Beginnings'). So far I haven't gotten anywhere close to decent yield, though I did produce a couple grams of calcium phenate last night.
I'll post once I've made an attempt with a copper catalyst; I have a couple grams of copper carbonate I'm not using for anything else...
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