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Author: Subject: Stabilization of organic peroxides
Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 26-5-2011 at 13:39


Correct HMTD is unstable at ordinary temperature, it gradually and steadily decomposes. If you have a pure dry sample of acetone peroxide, perhaps gotten by sublimation or by recrystallization from cooling of warm toluene in which AP is extremely soluble, my experience is it is stable at ordinary temperatures.
However AP has significant vapor pressure as a solid so it sublimes steadily,
which makes the containered material phase mobile. AP continually resublimes in any container using the container as a heat pipe for accomplishing its phase change loop, continuously recrystallizing itself like frost in a cycling freezer compartment.
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[*] posted on 30-6-2011 at 02:41


I have tried using polyvinyl acetate emulsion mixing HMTD,then drying, be a mixture of more stable.
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Adas
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[*] posted on 23-11-2011 at 09:57


Some weeks ago I was trying to make TATP using direct dry ice cooling (putting dry ice into the reaction mixture), but it had no effect! No increase in stability, maybe even decrease. One time I have made very stable TATP, but I don't remember exact conditions. Shame. Now I am experimenting with how to remove lower/opened acetone peroxides. I will post the results soon.
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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 29-11-2011 at 11:35


If you are asking how to make organic peroxide explosives less sensitive, my answer would be that there essentially is no way to do this. To reduce sensitivity, there are only two possible routes:

Prevent formation of crystals. The best ways to do this would be to either dissolve the solid organic peroxide into an explosive liquid of lower sensitivity, simply use a liquid organic peroxide such as MEKP, or fully absorb the organic peroxide into a compatible polymer. Unfortunately, acetone peroxide partially sublimes at room temperature and can recondense in an enclosed container into crystals.

Dilute the organic peroxide. The problem with this is that mixing an inert subtance with the explosive will not proportionally reduce the sensitivity as much as it reduces the power. Alternatively, the diluting substance could be a less sensitive explosive. If the explosive used to dilute the organic peroxide is a solid, the organic peroxide will have to be so diluted that the initiation of a few localized grains would be unable to propagate. Essentially, one would think that no more than 20% organic peroxide could be used. Although a 1 to 1 ratio mix of acetone peroxide and ammonium nitrate seems to show decent resistence to flame initiation, such a mixture likely is much more sensitive to friction [although this has not been tested]. Any reduction in sensitivity caused by addition of ammonium nitrate is more likely due to the hygroscopic nature of ammonium nitrate, which helps to wet and keep the acetone peroxide moist. But besides from a "cushion" effect from the moisture, this is merely a form a dilution with liquid, since the water helps keep the residual acetone absorbed into the acetone peroxide. If this type of sensitivity reducing effect is desired, it would be much more effective to just moisturize acetone peroxide with some 1-butanol. If the explosive used to dilute acetone peroxide is a liquid, there are not any commonly available options that are ideal.

Theoretically, a solid 'fusion' between the two solids may also be possible, but actually making this would be problematic. Melting is just not an option, and if the two solids would have to be somehow isolated from a solvent before they had time to crystallize. A simple physical mix would not decrease sensitivity so much if microcrystals were allowed to form. I do not see this option as realistic.
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TinkerKABOOM
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[*] posted on 21-1-2015 at 16:07


I have never made AP or TATP but I have a few comparatively similar recipes I am going to try. I really hope everything works.
As far as stabilizing it for future use storage and transport I will try placing desired amount of AP in plastic wrap and then dipping that in melted wax. I should be able to make some nice bars or balls that I can stack and whatever.
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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 21-1-2015 at 19:09


Why not dip in molten lead? It'd be even stronger.
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[*] posted on 22-1-2015 at 02:25


I didnt follow the whole thread , but what i know that anything that has peroxide in its name is very dangerous and sensitive.

this patent show some peroxides explosives : US 3047441A

it seems the mixtures there might be a more stable than AP.

[Edited on 22-1-2015 by ecos]
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[*] posted on 22-1-2015 at 02:33


This mixture of "glycerol + H2O + H2O2" seems to be stable as stated by author : US2452074
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 22-1-2015 at 08:15


@TinkerKABOOM
Beware of overheating during wax melting an dipping. I don't understand what you want to do but it is risky!

@Zyklon-A
You are joking, are you?
Lead melting point = 327-328 °C
CTAP boiling point = 130°C
Also molten lead way over critical temperature for CTAP initiation

@ecos
I wouldn't play with H2O2 in high % mixed with non chemically pure chemicals.
H2O2 decomposition is highly dependant on impurities acting as catalyst (especially metals and organic matter).




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Zyklon-A
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[*] posted on 22-1-2015 at 19:13


Yeah, I was joking. Even candle wax seems dangerous, and I doubt it would help much anyway.
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ecos
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[*] posted on 23-1-2015 at 12:58


did u read the patent of glycerin-peroxide ?
you can use H202 with percentage like 50% and get it exploding , check the triangle in the beginning of the patent.
i would like to give it a try ...

btw, the author said it is bulletproof ;D
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[*] posted on 29-1-2015 at 11:48


I think this study paper is excellent ; http://www.wydawnictwa.ipo.waw.pl/cejem/vol-10-2-2013/Matyas...
they decrease the sensitivity with water or oil.
have a look , it may help :)
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[*] posted on 30-1-2015 at 08:11


Quote: Originally posted by ecos  
I think this study paper is excellent ; http://www.wydawnictwa.ipo.waw.pl/cejem/vol-10-2-2013/Matyas...
they decrease the sensitivity with water or oil.
have a look , it may help :)


YOU should have a look how fucking sensitive and dangerous peroxides are...

I use them too, but only as an ignition cap (smallquanitities), not as a maincharge or propellant :o
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ecos
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[*] posted on 30-1-2015 at 10:17


Hi vladimiR
who said that i want to play with peroxides??
I just try to help with articles i read
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VladimirLem
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[*] posted on 30-1-2015 at 11:02


Quote: Originally posted by ecos  
Hi vladimiR
who said that i want to play with peroxides??
I just try to help with articles i read


your previous thread?;)
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ecos
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[*] posted on 2-2-2015 at 06:30


you should fix ur english :P
I don't want to change the topic here, I found some articles that might help others so i share it with them.
thanks
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[*] posted on 4-2-2015 at 01:09


Quote: Originally posted by VladimirLem  
Quote: Originally posted by ecos  
I think this study paper is excellent ; http://www.wydawnictwa.ipo.waw.pl/cejem/vol-10-2-2013/Matyas...
they decrease the sensitivity with water or oil.
have a look , it may help :)


YOU should have a look how fucking sensitive and dangerous peroxides are...

I use them too, but only as an ignition cap (smallquanitities), not as a maincharge or propellant :o


Never seizes to amaze how the illusion of safety becomes so pronounciated by the application of small quantities that people choose to handle peroxide based initiators. In my humble opinion this is about the most unsuitable application for these compounds. Small quantities can be viewed as unable to inflict permanent damage due the fact that the amount of energy released by them is quite harmless, but that does not make them safer intrinsically and only holds true for a situation where this energy is not transferred over to other compounds that are able to propagate detonation. In an initiator application this condition is not met...in fact by design the reverse in every aspect is promoted. Hence everything energetic connected to a peroxide "hair trigger" becomes just as unstable and unpredictable. It's a serious matter that deserves rethinking the approach...




Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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[*] posted on 4-2-2015 at 10:34


I think all primary explosives are unstable !
do you have any stable primary Ex?
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