Quince
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Isolating Xenon - and its biological (anaesthetic) effects
I wonder if there is any way for a DIYer to isolate it from the air (in the lab, it is isolated by fractional distillation of liquified air and then
purified). It's a very interesting gas, as similarly to N2O its action on physiology as an anesthetic seems to be related to physical issues of
partial pressures rather than chemical pathways (this seems to apply to most noble gasses) and is thus psychoactive without being a drug. Xenon is
more potent than N2O, and more importantly, it is less likely to induce nausea during use. Safety of pure Xenon has been well established, and thus
if price wasn't the issue, well, think of the possibilities! 
(Note to moderator: it is not illegal to produce or consume Xe, so don't be too anal about this post.)
Edit: changed title
[Edited on 4-3-2005 by chemoleo]
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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chloric1
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No it is not illegal but it could be if people use reckless abandon like every other controlled substance out there.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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mick
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Is Xenon really more psychcoactive than N2O? I did not think Xenon was very reactive under standard body conditions. May be Argon would work. Maybe it
is acting as an asphixiant (is that spelt right?) and being a lot denser that air affects the lower part of the body rather than the top. One way to
tell might be to check if your voice or farts sound deeper. Helium makes your voice go squeeky and if you ask most deep sea divers, can makes you
high. Could work in a similar way.
mick
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BromicAcid
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Being that xenon is an inert gas there are not many compounds, and no natural compounds of it available. Any compound you bought would end up costing
more gram for gram xenon then just breaking down and buying the xenon gas in all likelihood. You are left with fractional distillation of air. Good
for you that xenon is the least volatile of the noble gases so it's not really distillation, if you sit liquid air around for a few weeks and
replenish it when it starts to get low then in the end you may have an increased xenon percentage. Note that xenon only comprises 0.0000087 mol % of
air, compare that to nitrous oxide 0.00005 mol % which is nearly 6 times more abundant in the air.
You could go for radioactive decay byproducts; xenon is believed to be one of the decay products of iodine-129, which has a half-life of 17,000,000
years.
Really, attempting to do this at home is going to break the bank, enormous quantities of liquid air, or worse yet making your own liquid air. This is
one of the few times, if not the only time, that I would admit the defeat of the home chemist at producing this at even the gram scale unless you
cheat and go from specialty compounds or scavenge from high end lights for automobiles.
Two resources:
http://www.weldingsupply.net/air.htm
http://www.c-f-c.com/specgas_products/xenon.htm
Edit: Although this would still be very difficult, xenon reacts with fluorine at STP, oxygen and nitrogen do not, so mixing air with a constant
supply of fluorine and running the exit gasses through a high quality filter for a few days, you might end up with a very tiny amount of xenon
fluorides. Again, something I'm not willing to do.
[Edited on 3/2/2005 by BromicAcid]
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Quince
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mick
Is Xenon really more psychcoactive than N2O? I did not think Xenon was very reactive under standard body conditions. |
Dude, did you read my post? As I wrote noble gasses are psychoactive which of course has nothing to do with their reactivity; the method of action is
physical instead of chemical (and has nothing to do with asphyxiation). N2O is similar in that although it can have chemical reaction in the body,
it's main action is similar to that of gasses like Xe and not chemical.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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mick
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If you let me know how they work physically I would be very interested. As far as I know any physical change that you are aware of must have caused
chemical change in your body, otherwise you would not notice it.
The only thing I can think of is they might block nitrogen and you end up with an oxygen rush. That should be OK in an emergency, but regularly wow
(check out your body chemistry)
mick
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chemoleo
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Inhaled Anaesthetics
Quince, there is no need for this aggressive tone. It's not the first time either. This is a voluntary board, and some
overlap/repetition/misunderstandings are to be expected. You aren't exempt from that (as you will see below). You want help/input, so be nice
about it. Cockiness will produce nothing but antagonism.
| Quote: | | it is not illegal to produce or consume Xe, so don't be too anal about this post |
There have been far
worse threads. No need for disclaimers in every thread either! What's anal or not is not ultimately your decision. Just to set the record
straight 
Now, back on topic:
| Quote: | | As I wrote noble gasses are psychoactive |
Well well, let's get the facts straight: Xenon was discover in 1898 and found to be the *only* noble gas to be anaesthetic under normobaric
conditions. (See http://www.anaesthetist.com/anaes/drugs/xenon.htm ). Admittedly anaesthetic doesn't equal psychoactive. Got refs. on the psychoactivity of
Ar, He, Ne? We got Ar here so I can test it
| Quote: | | Its action on physiology as an anesthetic seems to be related to physical issues of partial pressures rather than chemical pathways
|
Care to give us some evidence for this? In the above reference, it clearly states that "Xenon inhibits
the plasma membrane Ca2+ pump, altering excitability. It inhibits the nociceptive responsiveness of spinal dorsal horn neurons."
That doesn't sound like partial pressures and such at all, huh? Sounds more like chemical reactivities- which is exactly the reason why He/Ar etc
don't work - it hasn't got the same atomic size, distribution of electrons accross its surface, and dipole moment - which is responsible for
its specific ability to reversibly bind to specific neuroreceptors. Partial pressures (the percentage of Xe with O2, normally 70 vs 30% of course
relates to the partial pressure of the Xe in teh blood stream, which is related to the concentration)
Now, I checked this further: A literature search revealed that it blocks not only NMDA receptors (it is an antagonist, but also AMPA and kainate receptors in cortical neurones, also I suggest you read this, where you will find that xenon, in terms of its pharmacological profile, is very similar to N2O and cyclopropane. Xenon has a range of
effects, including the increase of norepinephrine, and the binding of Xenon to myoglobin (a hemoglobin homologue) has been demonstrated by X-ray crystallography.
So, Quince, it looks Xenon (and other inhalable anaesthetics) have many chemical reactivities! Needless to say, it doesn't hurt to back things up
with trusted references!
Noone is talking about covalent linkage. If that was the case, it is more likely to act as an irreversibly binding neurotoxin. But I am sure there are
indeed some anaesthetics that act covalently, and yet reversibly without major side effects.
I have attached a paper on the last issue, it gives a nice introduction, including the different inhaled anaesthetics. I didn't realise ethane is
considered an anaesthetic!
[Edited on 4-3-2005 by chemoleo]
Attachment: Inhaled anaesthetics.pdf (52kB)
This file has been downloaded 688 times
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Quince
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I stand corrected -- my previous source was unreliable (due to commercial interest).
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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mick
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Thanks
That was interesting. I do not know about Krypton but , this is new to me. By the sound of it, Xenon is a neutral atom with a large electronic field.
Because of its size it can fit in to receptors with in the body and with a large polarizable electronic field it can activate stuff.
The most physical high I have ever had was doing a parachute jump for the first time. On the jump I blacked out for a few seconds but after that it
was an experience. Must have done something chemical because I was on high for the next 10 days, longest orgasm I have ever had..
mick
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JohnWW
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Besides reacting with fluorine, and the resulting Xe(II), (IV) and (VI) compounds being hydrolyzable to oxy-compounds and oxidizable to Xe(VIII), Xe
should also combine readily with strong Lewis acids, e.g. electron-deficient compounds and metal ions like BF3, AlF3, AlCl3, SbF5. This may be how it
has its physiological effect in the body, as well as being the right size to fit biochemical receptor sites.
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