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Portability
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 2-10-2014
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Mood: No Mood
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My house got raided today.
Today was one crazy day. Woke up to pounding on the door, thinking it was a delivery guy, local police department investigating a methlab report. I
literally wake up and 5 seconds later there was cop demanding me in a stern voice telling me to get out here and that they are investigating a methlab
report. Long story short, my landlord came in the house when I was sleeping without ANY NOTICE to do a "routine check" (they're gonna get a LOT of
bitching about this). Apparently the landlord saw a beaker with orange stuff sitting out in the garage with my stirrer and other stuff. (polymerized
gunk from a failed aldol)
Police had me handcuffed for about 5 minutes claiming I was being detained but not arrested (before they got entry to the house). After I talked with
them for a bit, they immediately could tell I was no junky. We talked for a bit, and when locked in the squad car for some time, I heard some of the
officers chatting through the glass "Wow this kid is incredible smart - I'm fairly confident everything in there will check out and we can leave.",
There was a HUGE hazmat truck (size of full length Semi Truck), 10+ police cars, fire trucks with hoses ready to go.
They asked me if I could write down everything I had in there (random reagents for research/experimentation, absolutely nothing illegal), to which I
thought about it for a short while, and agreed. They told me they just wanted to check my garage for things like Ephedrine and "meth cook" supplies. I
assured them there was nothing of that nature in there. With the list I wrote down, 2 professional chemists came out, with masters degrees workingin
for the local version of the "FBI", I discussed the list with them, told them absolutely everything I was using the stuff for. For like 15 minutes,
those 2 chemists were being huddled around by 10+ cops in a circle, discussing the list.
They told me if I gave them consent that they would be out in 20 minutes, whereas if they get a warrant it could take 20+ hours - I believed they were
lying. They had threatened with warrants and eventually I said fuck it and gave them consent, because I know there was nothing illegal in there - I
just didn't want them to tear apart my furniture. They suited up in Hazmat, went in there, 20 minutes later, came out. When I saw them folding up
their suits, carrying nothing out with them, and no officers running around, a guy in a suit and tie came over and said everything checked out quote
"just like you told us". Within 10 minutes the street was cleared and I was back in my house just thinking what a pain in the ass.
It was ridiculous. 15+ cop cars, the local "fbi", huge hazmat trucks, fire trucks, EVEN THE MAYOR DROVE BY. Reporters tried to come by but the road
was blocked....
Fucking ridiculous. Believe it or not they did not take any of my reagents, they didn't tear through my house or anything. They didn't even "test" any
of my reagents, they just "took a lot". Because of paranoia that there was some dangerous cook going, the Hazmat guys went in first, and I assume that
they didn't search the rest of the house because the Hazmat guys said everything was okay.
Cops knocked on every door telling every neighbor they were not allowed to go outside saying their might be a huge explosion...bullshit.
Oh yeah, and I couldn't go to work on time so I got fired, so now its time to go job hunting. The good news is I didn't make the 5 o'clock news so my
identity is safe... news crews weren't allowed to get close enough and the cops just called it "cased closed".
WHAT A BULLSHIT DAY.
on the bright side the professional chemists verified that there was nothing hazardous in there, so at least my landlords can't kick me out for
violating the part of the lease discussing hazardous living conditions.
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Bert
Super Administrator
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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What part of the world were the police that easygoing in?
In Texas, you'd have been in jail just for owning "unregistered" chemistry equipment
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Portability
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 2-10-2014
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Good ol US of A..... There was literally nothing illegal in there. I know what the laws are. There are extremely strict penalties for "cooking drugs"
here. 100g of Meth is practically trafficker status, say hello to 20 years in prison. I'm not stupid, and I am not a fool. I have way too much
intelligence to waste it on cooking drugs. Texas is one of those exceptions that I will never be going to.
All I can say is that I feel beyond lucky. I am thankful to have a very strong and likable personality. When I was talking to the "professional"
chemists that came out there, they commented that they felt like they were talking to one of their own colleagues, the cops standing by listening to
me discuss the various reagents and their purposes seemed quite impressed. I had a lot of reagents. Small quantities of a lot of transition metals
(like 10 different salts). Random obscure catalysts you've never ever heard of, and so on. I told them the truth, I was doing experimental research as
a hobby, nothing more.
To be honest I am quite surprised it went that way. I was in that squad car thinking I was about to go to jail for a few months, only to have them
release me later after they tested all of my compounds confirming nothing was illegal... There were a lot of unlabeled sealed bags with random
reagents in them (I knew what was in them, nothing bad), and surprisingly they did not open any of them. From the looks of it, they seem to have just
stuck their heads in and poked around.
People see glassware and immediately think "METH!". Such bullshit. It took me a few times of repeating myself for them to understand that people DO DO
chemistry as a hobby. I'm just so irritated. Less with the cops and more with my rental company. Violating my privacy by just barging in my house
unannounced, while I am sleeping no less. They are lucky I didn't wake up, mistake them for burglers, and blow their brains all over the wall -
because that could have been an extremely real possibility and where I live I would not be held accountable for that.
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Brain&Force
Hazard to Lanthanides
Posts: 1302
Registered: 13-11-2013
Location: UW-Madison
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Just curious, were there any news articles about the raid? I want to see how badly written any articles were.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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Portability
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 2-10-2014
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I don't think so. I looked. No charges were filed, the case was closed, nothing was seized. I'm really glad my name didn't get out there because then
it would be near impossible to find a new place to live. I'm not exactly wanting to stay here anymore knowing the rental company has 0 ethics and no
respect for my privacy. If I am lucky I will get a successful lawsuit out of this because they lied and told me they gave me several days notice that
they would be coming - HORSE SHIT.
Only one news crew came out, two people, a big camera, and a tripod. They were not allowed to get close enough to get any information. The police
basically quarantined and blocked off a huge part of the neighborhood.... 50-100+ houses easy. Anyone they found outside was told to go back inside
until hazmat confirmed the safety.... so they put the entire neighborhood on lock down.... all for what.... a 250ml beaker with orange polymer gunk in
it.
It was complete overkill. One officer told me that the entire ordeal cost roughly "$50,000", luckily I don't have to pay anything. Where he got that
number from, I have no idea, there weren't that many people out there and no equipment/resources were consumed other than 4 hours of ~20ish peoples
time?
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Mesa
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 2-7-2013
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I'm going to take a wild guess and say you are an Aussie.
I had a similar experience at the beginning of the year, although in my case the chemists left behind a bunch of glassware by accident which I find
fairly useful nowadays.
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Jylliana
Hazard to Others
Posts: 126
Registered: 3-10-2014
Location: The Netherlands
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Mood: Bubbly ^-^
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Darn, i'd be scared to death(figuratively). Luckily they didn't find anything.
At least you got a story to tell at dinner 
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plante1999
International Hazard
Posts: 1936
Registered: 27-12-2010
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Mood: Mad as a hatter
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Most of what's left of my stock is in storage in the garage, pretty much out of view. (It looks like a normal garage with motorized vehicles and
tools) But in some boxes there is my stock, so essentially, unless I get spotted by shipment I make, I doubt I can get raided.
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Little_Ghost_again
National Hazard
Posts: 985
Registered: 16-9-2014
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Mood: Baffled
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Dad has a registered home lab, he works part time at a university doing research and stuff. I doubt even if we got raided there is much they can do.
BUT one thing that has changed is he is no longer able to explosive precursors here!
The police explosive people came around and told him they have to go, apparently you now need a police linked alarm system and this and that security
to be able to have them in a registered lab.
One of the chemicals he had to get rid of was Ammonium Nitrate, it was around 250g in a labeled bottle IN his lab. But we are able to keep the 3/4 of
a TON bag of it we have in the outbuilding ready to be spread as fertilizer this autumn! How mad is that
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Praxichys
International Hazard
Posts: 1063
Registered: 31-7-2013
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
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Mood: Coprecipitated
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I am prepared for a potential raid. Everything is clean, organized, labeled, and inventoried. I still worry that someone is not going to like some of
my chemicals. I have Hg metal, KCN, cyanuric trichloride, picric acid, etc. and my fume hood vents directly outside at ground level, about 70 feet
from the nearest neighbor's house.
It could be construed that since I do not have a flammables cabinet and the furnace is in the same room (the whole basement) albeit well away from
something like 10 gallons of flammable solvents, maybe there is a fire hazard.
But I own the house and the property so I am pretty sure that as long as I keep my hazards to myself I can do as I please. And obviously I don't just
let hazardous gases just fly out into the backyard. The hood is really just to catch the whiffs that make it past the joints and keeps the lab safe in
case of an accident.
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aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
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Congratulations on NOT getting busted !
Deeply sorry about the Job dissolving.
Is it normal where you live to get fired for being late one day with good cause ?
I'm fairly sure i'll be hauled away if i get raided, despite doing only basic beginners' stuff.
The local cops would not know what else to do.
It's the Glass that conjures the 'Cook' image.
Sad to think that you could get beaten with a Teflon/PVC truncheon held in a Nitryl gloved hand for trying to learn how such materials are created.
The best one can do is stay as Safe as you can, and Continue.
All notions of Safety are an illusion in the end.
[Edited on 3-10-2014 by aga]
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MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
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Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
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What's crazy about the glassware regulations is that owning glassware is more likely to mean you aren't a cook, and are actually interested
in accuracy and scientific inquiry. Anybody could easily make an apparatus out of coke bottles and latex tubing, particularly if they are in "the
business" and don't care about purity or accuracy. It's all ridiculous. It's only to show the uneducated public "Look! We're doing things to keep you
safe!" Pff.
Anyways I'm glad you weren't taken to jail over it. I'm a little confused though. You say they "did not take any of my reagents" then the next
sentence you write "they just 'took a lot'. " Also, you mention "They didn't even 'test' any of my reagents" but later state "they tested all of my
compounds". I'm just asking to clarify what all they actually did and did not do. This story is definitely motivation to label all of my bottles and
get those MSDS sheets printed out.
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Oxirane
Hazard to Self
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Registered: 19-9-2014
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Mood: No Mood
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The whole world is becoming an one sick society.
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Pyro
International Hazard
Posts: 1305
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Gent, Belgium
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In BE the cops are great on this, i had them come because my lab was reported by the fire dept.
they tested a few dirty beakers and such, looked around and concluded i wasn't a cook.
They said that the pile of chem literature, equations (i have a big stack of papers with my equations too), the large selection of chems (300+) in
clearly labelled bottles and my obvious knowledge of chem.
later my dad arrived and got the chief to come for (spiked) coffee 
all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.  |
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Portability
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 2-10-2014
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Mood: No Mood
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Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  | What's crazy about the glassware regulations is that owning glassware is more likely to mean you aren't a cook, and are actually interested
in accuracy and scientific inquiry. Anybody could easily make an apparatus out of coke bottles and latex tubing, particularly if they are in "the
business" and don't care about purity or accuracy. It's all ridiculous. It's only to show the uneducated public "Look! We're doing things to keep you
safe!" Pff.
Anyways I'm glad you weren't taken to jail over it. I'm a little confused though. You say they "did not take any of my reagents" then the next
sentence you write "they just 'took a lot'. " Also, you mention "They didn't even 'test' any of my reagents" but later state "they tested all of my
compounds". I'm just asking to clarify what all they actually did and did not do. This story is definitely motivation to label all of my bottles and
get those MSDS sheets printed out. |
That first one was a typo, I meant to say they "took a look". I don't think they tested anything really. They didn't test anything to my knowledge,
I'm not sure why I typed that. A lot of the bags weren't even touched. By the looks of things it barely looks like they peeked their heads in. When I
went in I was expecting to see everything disturbed but it looked like they barely touched anything. In any case it was definitely one of the most
jarring days I've had in a while.
I have been meaning to get MSDS's for everything and have everything more properly organized, but I had literally only set the lab up about 3 months
prior. Leaping directly into a professional image is not the easiest thing. It takes time.
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aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
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It will be impossibly hard to Leap into any image as wee runs down my left leg.
Youth with Rare opportunity to Point a Loaded Gun will be somewhat worrying.
Solution !
My new Lab Suit will be a full Police uniform with enough pips on my epaulettes to outrank whoever barges in with a gun.
Unlikely that wee shows up so well against navy blue.
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The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
Posts: 1981
Registered: 22-3-2014
Location: 'Stil' in the lab...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Copious
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aga, posting under alcoholic influence? Sometimes it's hard to tell Just
kidding...
Regardless, that sucks Portability!
Unfortunately, I think I talk too much about chemistry, it has made a few suspicious in the past. I actually had to write a letter to my assistant
principal that I wasn't an explosives maker, b/c his wife, my spanish teacher, saw that I used 'explosivos' in a spanish sentence once, and knew that
I liked chemistry (and told her husband, should have thought!). Luckily his first impression was that I was some dumb pyro (he hadn't met me before),
and as soon as he saw the letter (he was impressed by my writing), and found out I was an honors student, he realized I likely
wouldn't be a problem.
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Dan Vizine
National Hazard
Posts: 628
Registered: 4-4-2014
Location: Tonawanda, New York
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Mood: High Resistance
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A main problem is that there are lots of drugs and explosives and so their preparative routes encompass a huge number of reagents.
Suddenly, iodine, phosphorus, strong reducing agents, the nicest solvents (ether and THF as far as I'm concerned), strong halogenating reagents,
methylating agents, BBr3 etherate, a huge number of substituted benzenes, ammonia, piperidine, cyclohexanone, trialkoxyaluminum hydrides, benzyl
bromide, acetic anhydride, metal catalysts on C, acetyl chloride, catalytic hydrogenation machines, oxalyl chloride, formic acid, mercury salts,
benzaldehyde, lower nitroalkanes, nitric acid, picric acid, and who knows how many more chemicals and items are "suspect".
When I asked the Home Depot to accept a return on NaOH I had purchased and if they had brands without added aluminum, the employee I talked to said
"Does the FBI know about this?" without a hint of a smile. This person was being serious. How do you even answer a question like that from a scared,
suspicious little man? I just gave him my best "aren't you a cute little idiot?" glare and went to Lowe's down the street. Do your worst, frightened
& suspicious little man.
My frustration with fools grows by the day. I think that's why I post under my actual name and describe all that I do. It offers the information up
and at least it shows what I make and why. Even my most recent project to make Th is totally open for all to see. Some members expressed the view that
this is an invitation for a raid, but I disagree. In my view, this at least explains why I bought conc. HNO3 and 28% ammonia soln.* instead of for
explosives and drugs, respectively. Only time will tell, I guess.
*It is well known that eBay chemical purchases are reviewed by law enforcement. They'd be stupid not to.
[Edited on 8-10-2014 by Dan Vizine]
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TheAlchemistPirate
Hazard to Others
Posts: 151
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: The point of no return
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Mood: Enigmatic
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/start rant
First, I would like to point out the title of this thread, "My house got raided today". This doesnt exactly help our image as professionals in the
community. You are not a drug cook, you are a very helpful member of this forum. Your lab is not just another drug lab operated in a ghetto outside of
town. "My lab got searched today" or "The sheeples made the police detain me" would be more appropriate of a title. I frequently see a fear of being
"found out" on this forum, as if we are all serial killers or something else which actually deserves punishments by government. One of the only ways
science will ever become an appreciated part of our communities and countries is to not reduce ourselves to methods used by criminals.(real ones)
The wars on drugs and "terrorism" are hoaxes. Now, before you start taunting me with "The moon landing was fake" etc. let me explain. We can all
agree that drugs (most illicit ones) are generally "bad". Of course we dont want all the 12 year olds in our society taking 4 lbs of heroin a day.
But seriously?! Filling our prisons over 80% with drug-addicts? Destroying the right of the people to get basic chemicals for learning purpose?
Eliminating their privacy with net-tracking and soon- UAV surveillance? Dont get me started on "terrorism". But let me ask you this... When did every
freaking person with a gun/explosive material who is not part of a huge global power an Islamic extremist "raghead"? What happened to headlines like
"Militants occupy subway" or "Bomber destroys neighborhood"? When was our country reduced to blaming the everyday should-be-expected violence on a
major religion? Oh right, the Salem witch trials...
The time has come for us to stop complaining about these things on our own little site and actually take action, like reforming our education system,
etc. We could start a movement if we really wanted to.
I blame our crappy education system.
I blame the tyrants that insituted it.
I blame the former generation that did nothing.
I blame the two-party get-nothing-done idealogy we have (Gay marriage debates, anyone?)
"Is this even science anymore?!"
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Little_Ghost_again
National Hazard
Posts: 985
Registered: 16-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baffled
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Actually its just a circle really, like most things they are cyclic.
In the beginning you had alchemist's, people who were feared and people were suspicious of. Witchcraft and the devils work!!
Then eventually useful things were discovered and answers to many questions found. A great deal of these major mile stones in history were by amateur
scientist's, people who for one reason or another stood outside the golden circle.
Then chemistry and science became main stream and excepted, people took the piss out of this freedom and the circle came around again.
The Future.............
Pretty soon most things will be out of reach and the people in the golden circle will be the only ones with access, but a few 'OTHERS' will find ways
to continue.......... My dad say's Necessity is the mother of invention and its father is often unknown.
Maybe in the end this is a good thing and will lead to major discoveries and so round the circle we start again.
My own view is fuckem.......
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TheAlchemistPirate
Hazard to Others
Posts: 151
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: The point of no return
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enigmatic
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I wouldn't be so sure Little_Ghost, this type of thing has never happened before. The cycles of governments and idealogies rising and falling may be
different now. Technologies like gunpowder which gave much power to one person, the very same things which seeded the end of feudalism and birthed
democracy have come back to haunt us. Now, a politician and a few other corrupt officials can decimate entire countries if they please, and force
their people to pay for it (nuclear weapons). Now, they can watch our every move, and kill us in a single command given to some nerd at a military
base. And we have given these abilities to them without abandon.
"Is this even science anymore?!"
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Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4508
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
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| Quote: Originally posted by TheAlchemistPirate | /start rant
First, I would like to point out the title of this thread, "My house got raided today". This doesnt exactly help our image as professionals in the
community. You are not a drug cook, you are a very helpful member of this forum. Your lab is not just another drug lab operated in a ghetto outside of
town. "My lab got searched today" or "The sheeples made the police detain me" would be more appropriate of a title. I frequently see a fear of being
"found out" on this forum, as if we are all serial killers or something else which actually deserves punishments by government. One of the only ways
science will ever become an appreciated part of our communities and countries is to not reduce ourselves to methods used by criminals.(real ones)
The wars on drugs and "terrorism" are hoaxes. Now, before you start taunting me with "The moon landing was fake" etc. let me explain. We can all
agree that drugs (most illicit ones) are generally "bad". Of course we dont want all the 12 year olds in our society taking 4 lbs of heroin a day.
But seriously?! Filling our prisons over 80% with drug-addicts? Destroying the right of the people to get basic chemicals for learning purpose?
Eliminating their privacy with net-tracking and soon- UAV surveillance? Dont get me started on "terrorism". But let me ask you this... When did every
freaking person with a gun/explosive material who is not part of a huge global power an Islamic extremist "raghead"? What happened to headlines like
"Militants occupy subway" or "Bomber destroys neighborhood"? When was our country reduced to blaming the everyday should-be-expected violence on a
major religion? Oh right, the Salem witch trials...
The time has come for us to stop complaining about these things on our own little site and actually take action, like reforming our education system,
etc. We could start a movement if we really wanted to.
I blame our crappy education system.
I blame the tyrants that insituted it.
I blame the former generation that did nothing.
I blame the two-party get-nothing-done idealogy we have (Gay marriage debates, anyone?) |
Amen!
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hyfalcon
International Hazard
Posts: 1003
Registered: 29-3-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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As I pick myself back up off the floor and dry my eyes.... Are you sure you're just 14?! Damn if that's not my outlook about it and I"m 53. I guess
if you've starred death in the face before, you don't sweat the small stuff.
Wish I could spell!
[Edited on 8-10-2014 by hyfalcon]
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Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | /start rant
First, I would like to point out the title of this thread, "My house got raided today". This doesnt exactly help our image as professionals in the
community. |
I like your post, but if one of us were served a no-nock warrant, which was not the case here, I would certainly call it a raid regardless of
innocence. It would just be an improper use of force likely attributable to the unfortunately common occurrence of very poor intelligence work among
law enforcement prior to a raid. Not to necessarily imply that raiding some low level drug dealers/manufacturers is proper either, as the level of
force escalation in the continuum seems very arguably disproportionately excessive.
[Edited on 8-10-2014 by Chemosynthesis]
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CuReUS
National Hazard
Posts: 928
Registered: 9-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again |
Pretty soon most things will be out of reach and the people in the golden circle will be the only ones with access, but a few 'OTHERS' will find ways
to continue.......... My dad say's Necessity is the mother of invention and its father is often unknown.
Maybe in the end this is a good thing and will lead to major discoveries and so round the circle we start again.
My own view is fuckem....... |
maybe in the future they will restrict the number of people who can learn organic chemistry and take it as their college course
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