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Author: Subject: Hydrogen peroxide penetrability
Esplosivo
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[*] posted on 28-3-2005 at 12:24


Quote:
Originally posted by I am a fish
Quote:
Our bodies (cells) MAKE H2O2 to fight infection. Ever heard of catalase enzyme?


Wrong again. Cells make small quantities of hydrogen peroxide as an unwanted (and toxic) byproduct of metabolism. Catalase's role is to break it down, not to make it.


Well not exactly, the superoxide radicle is produced by certain types of white blood cells to kill and destroy certain pathogens, be they organisms or particles. It is therefore not correct to state that hydrogen peroxide generated by the body is always a byproduct. Catalase has a high turn-over rate (one of the highest). This prevents H2O2 from being present in the blood stream and causing damage. IIRC the peroxide ion was shown not long ago to cause effects similar to ageing (wrinkles and all).

Also another disadvantage of your system is that one would require massive loads of this 'topical hydrogen peroxide' of yours. It only contains 3% by volume of oxygen, which is quickly used up, even by tissues with a low metabolic rate.




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sparkgap
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[*] posted on 29-3-2005 at 03:11


If you're hoping to oxygenate the body with dilute peroxide, this is too much trouble for a paltry oxygen supply. IMHO.

There is a world of difference between "nascent" and "atmospheric" oxygen. :D Essentially, they are allotropes, as well as ozone. Reactivity-wise, I can say with confidence that no one will want to have nascent oxygen inside their bodies!

Hyperbaric treatments involve exposing the body to high pressure oxygen; quite different from the protocol you are proposing.

Please desist on thinking about internal administration of peroxide.

Since we're on the subject of peroxide anyway, I was surprised to find out (through Google) that a website has been dedicated to it: http://www.h2o2.com/ . :D

sparky (^_^)




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kin
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[*] posted on 29-3-2005 at 04:05


Guess you are right. It may be more dangerous than i thought.

Are any other methods of "pushing" more oxygen in blood than h2o2 or botled o2?

I had a thought like that:

Decomposing H2O2 with Mno2 then filter trough distiled water the gass generated. Instead of breathing it it could be used topicaly with a large vessel that can adapt on skin with no gaps not alowing gas to escape.
Slowly the epidermis absorbes this extra oxygen in to the blood vessels promoting oxygenation to the (inner) ijured area.

It could be a miniature of HBO if enough pressure can be generated between the "skin adapted vessel" and epidermis.
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sparkgap
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[*] posted on 29-3-2005 at 04:12


By hyperbaric, we're talking about literally atmospheres of pressure here...

I'm still skeptical that the skin will absorb useful amounts of oxygen at easily attainable pressures.

sparky (^_^)




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Esplosivo
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[*] posted on 29-3-2005 at 05:06


Quote:
Originally posted by kin
Slowly the epidermis absorbes this extra oxygen in to the blood vessels promoting oxygenation to the (inner) ijured area.


The human body wall, the skin, is not a highly vascular organ (and neither is it humid enough to allow gases to dissolve and pass to the blood, not to mention the thickness; just keep Fick's law in min). It is, unlike other organisms like certain annelids and amphibians, not adapted for gaseous exchange. In 'forcing' in oxygen through the skin in reasonable amounts, enough to make an organ autonomous from the lungs and heart, would most probably require a large pressure, not mentioning the damage to the skin dermis and the capillaries.

If I'm understanding correctly you are aiming at supplying an organ/tissue which is injured (I presume it has lost blood supply) with oxygen. That would be quite interesting indeed.




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kin
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[*] posted on 29-3-2005 at 11:12


Quote:
Quote:
originaly posted by Esplosivo


If I'm understanding correctly you are aiming at supplying an organ/tissue which is injured (I presume it has lost blood supply) with oxygen. That would be quite interesting indeed.





Exactly!
Actualy many tissues in body have poor blood supply by the time of birth, so injuring such a delicate spot it is very time consuming and hard to "heal right".

But by promoting extra oxygen (doesn't have to be in tons just a little increase) at the injured area can help the neovascularization of tissue and the increase in metabolic rate of the cells meaning they can work faster.

The problem is always doing it safely.

I read in some site for a cream that claims to oxygenate from the skin the inner cartilages of joints. It contained H2O2.

But on the other hand it could be just someone trying to sell his product.
http://www.arthritisjointsolution.com/moxy_plus.htm

I can not imagine how can essential oils combine with hydrogen peroxide.
Can someone explain it to me?



[Edited on 29-3-2005 by kin]
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 29-3-2005 at 14:41


Another snake oil company…

I seriously doubt that a small increase in the amount of oxygen in a tissue would make any significant difference. Also, what is this obsession with hydrogen peroxide? The oxygen gas given off by this stuff is exactly the same as what comes out of bottles. Putting it into your skin is a very bad idea, as has already been discussed.

To explain/discredit this company, let’s apply some common sense, a little science, and most valuable of all, historical precedent. The DMSO is meant to take anything dissolved in it straight into the skin—fair enough. The peroxide is the snake oil here, Mr. fish’s article thoroughly debunked this. What do essential oils do, you ask? The answer: sell the product. Essential oils usually have no function in the plants they’re made in, neither are they likely to have much of an effect in animals. Most people, however, don’t know this and think they have some implicit theraputical value, being ‘essential’ and all.

Finally, the historical. People have been selling quack medicines for centuries. What makes you think the world today is any different. Just look at what people were buying in the early 20th century. They also thought that the stuff they were buying was good for them. Unfortunately, drinking radium and wearing it in jewelry turned out to be a very bad idea, so the quackers moved onto other junk.
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[*] posted on 30-3-2005 at 04:06


Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino
Another snake oil company…

I seriously doubt that a small increase in the amount of oxygen in a tissue would make any significant difference. Also, what is this obsession with hydrogen peroxide? The oxygen gas given off by this stuff is exactly the same as what comes out of bottles. Putting it into your skin is a very bad idea, as has already been discussed.

To explain/discredit this company, let’s apply some common sense, a little science, and most valuable of all, historical precedent. The DMSO is meant to take anything dissolved in it straight into the skin—fair enough. The peroxide is the snake oil here, Mr. fish’s article thoroughly debunked this. What do essential oils do, you ask? The answer: sell the product. Essential oils usually have no function in the plants they’re made in, neither are they likely to have much of an effect in animals. Most people, however, don’t know this and think they have some implicit theraputical value, being ‘essential’ and all.

Finally, the historical. People have been selling quack medicines for centuries. What makes you think the world today is any different. Just look at what people were buying in the early 20th century. They also thought that the stuff they were buying was good for them. Unfortunately, drinking radium and wearing it in jewelry turned out to be a very bad idea, so the quackers moved onto other junk.



Agree.

Can bottled O2 bought without medical subscription?
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sparkgap
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[*] posted on 30-3-2005 at 08:44


I don't quite know how to subscribe to bottled O<sub>2</sub>, but it should be easy to procure without needing permission from anyone, AFAIK. :D

DMSO and peroxide... they really are pulling pant legs...

neutrino, that was a very good example of quackery. :) Another example that comes to mind is the purported "universal antidote".

kin, you really should not be quoting whole posts.

sparky (^_^)




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[*] posted on 30-3-2005 at 13:19


Quote:
Originally posted by kin
Can bottled O2 bought without medical subscription?


Welder's supply store.

Or heck, even Ace hardware, if you want a few ounces (for $8!).

Tim
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kin
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[*] posted on 31-3-2005 at 04:09


Is it clean O2?
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sparkgap
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[*] posted on 31-3-2005 at 04:11


Ought to be. It's not that inconvenient for them to separate oxygen from the rest of the air.

sparky (^_^)




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[*] posted on 31-3-2005 at 10:18


leaving 200 ml of 9% H2O2 in a room at night slowly decomposing with MnO2 it could add extra oxygen to the air.

Would the precentage be enough to ingrease oxygen in blood by breathing?

Sorry i mention again H2O2 but i got "tons" of it and it is useless.
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 31-3-2005 at 14:31


I doubt it would increase it by any significant amount. This amount would produce only ~6L of oxygen gas. If you like explosives, there is a list of things you could synthesize. It’s also used a good deal in standard chem. Search around, there’s bound to be something interesting you can do with it.
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[*] posted on 1-4-2005 at 03:58


If i am gona use it i will be for health purposes.

I made once dimeric (wet) acetone peroxide 300 grams and i regret it. My left ear is ringing 2 years now. I was 10 meters away.

how dangerous is this in your opinion?

http://www.altcancer.com/h2o2.htm
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[*] posted on 1-4-2005 at 14:12


It looks like more snake oil to me. As for safety, I doubt you’ll have too much of a problem, as you shouldn’t get too much peroxide in your blood. I’m not an expert on these things, though, so you may want a second opinion. As for the safety of working with the conc. peroxide, well, the pictures say it all.
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[*] posted on 3-4-2005 at 07:02


Is it possible for the oxygen to create any dizziness ?

When breathing fast and deep in purpose without any physical activity there is a dizziness present. Is this fealing caused from the extra oxygen in blood?
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Esplosivo
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[*] posted on 3-4-2005 at 07:51


That is known as hyperventilation, and it is due to 'excess' oxygen. It may lead to one fainting, etc....



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12AX7
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[*] posted on 3-4-2005 at 12:14


I heard it was insufficient CO2 in the bloodstream (thus tilting pH).

Come to think of it, breathing pure oxygen would produce this effect, if extra O2 were the cause. As I recall, though it does give you a boost, it doesn't make you high.

Tim
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[*] posted on 4-4-2005 at 23:25


Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
I heard it was insufficient CO2 in the bloodstream (thus tilting pH).


Tim




So breathing fast "does" create extra oxygen in blood but this is not the reason for the dizy feeling. It is the low CO2 am i right?
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[*] posted on 22-9-2020 at 07:54


superoxide dismutase?
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